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After all the talk of Nick Lee being one of the main guys to beat I thought he massively underperformed. I think too much hype was placed on him  after the OTT backside matches.
 

I think he's an outstanding wrestler but does his style lend to the kind of improvement he would need to have to challenge year after year? 

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13 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:

After all the talk of Nick Lee being one of the main guys to beat I thought he massively underperformed. I think too much hype was placed on him  after the OTT backside matches.
 

I think he's an outstanding wrestler but does his style lend to the kind of improvement he would need to have to challenge year after year? 

A ) Hendo is a gamer.  The travesty is that you are undervaluing his ability.

B ) Them having the Consi QF the night before and the Champ-Semis the following morning, with the Consi-Semis was the most stupid thing to happen this weekend.  Anywhere on the planet.

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I've never undervalued Hendo and think he's a good wrestler as well but no one was talking about Henderson taking it all this weekend/ even making it to Final X. A lot of the consensus was that Lee was going to be the guy this year to punch through, regardless of when the rounds are, you're still expected to show up if you are that caliber of wrestler and I don't think that's a valid excuse for getting whipped on the backside. 

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5 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

False.  83% had him beating Maple.

False... they had Lee coming out of the top side of the bracket... Maple was just an option, Hendo would have fallen into 'other'

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On 5/19/2022 at 9:59 AM, nhs67 said:

I think Lee is the best wrestler in the bracket.

I think for one match McKenna will win.  If it were best of three I would ho Johnny D.


 

I think that post says a lot and nothing wrong with it, you like many others I'm sure thought the same.

 

my original question I posed was do you/others think his style can be significantly improved upon to be a perennial challenger in Final X?

Edited by DoubleHalf

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16 minutes ago, DoubleHalf said:


 

I think that post says a lot and nothing wrong with it, you like many others I'm sure thought the same.

 

my original question I posed was do you/others think his style can be significantly improved upon to be a perennial challenger in Final X?

I think his style is fine for it, as-is.  Adding to his arsenal will only give us what we thought we were going to get from Retherford.

Let him focus on Freestyle.  Him entering was a late decision and I believe it showed in his cardio, which we are not used to.

I am also tossing out the McKenna match.  USAW should sit on hot coals for being so stupid.

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When Nick Lee beat an already mentally defeated YIanni in the consolations, many were saying the effect of a huge loss for Yianni in the championship bracket was an excuse. Now that Nick Lee lost even more surprisingly and got teched by McKenna in the consies (McKenna took an even worse loss to Ian Parker, by the way), I wonder what those people think about the effect of losing a shot at making the team on performance.

Lee is really good, but all the talk from that good run in the consies when the top guys were mailing it in was premature.

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His backside performance two years ago (or whenever) was overvalued, many said so at the time, though many (mostly Penn State fans) protested. He's still excellent and could develop into our guy at some point.

 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

When Nick Lee beat an already mentally defeated YIanni in the consolations, many were saying the effect of a huge loss for Yianni in the championship bracket was an excuse. Now that Nick Lee lost even more surprisingly and got teched by McKenna in the consies (McKenna took an even worse loss to Ian Parker, by the way), I wonder what those people think about the effect of losing a shot at making the team on performance.

Lee is really good, but all the talk from that good run in the consies when the top guys were mailing it in was premature.

I am one of those people, and my opinion has not changed in any way. I am not discounting McKenna's win just as I did not discount Lee's OTT wins. Both guys in both situations lost out on their goal. It is silly to say one was excited to be on the back side and the other wasn't. They were both there to win.

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In other words, the back side gaveth and the back side tooketh away. I was most surprised by Lee’s lack of offense after that initial burst. He is a super talented kid though who really has wrestled very little freestyle. I agree that forecasting based on the consis of winner take all tournaments is extremely sketchy but Lee’s future is yet to be written.  He has a plenty good tool set but only time will tell.  BTW, as an upstate NYer, I am a huge Y guy but until they wrestle each other in a meaningful match, this juror isn’t making any predictions about that meeting. Lastly, I don’t think McK ever beats Yianni again.

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I think some of this underperformance is from scouting, and his upside isn't as high as some think. He may make a world team, but I doubt it, and if he does, he will be an international non-factor. I don't think he is varied or dynamic enough to place at Worlds.

Some people can't be scouted well because they are so athletic that you can't really prepare effectively for them, e.g. Dake, JB, Cox, et al. Lee isn't one of them. He also isn't like Nolf, with a wide arsenal of attacks that can overwhelm you as you get more tired than Nolf.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Lee was a a bad decision (or two) from being in the final.  He was up 10-5 on Henderson and blew the lead, in part by continuing to (over)attack.  

He could have wrestled more defensively after having a big lead and forcing Henderson to be aggressive/offensive.

Lee is fine.  I don't see Henderson beating him next time.   

Yianni will win in 2 at Final X.

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Who knows if he's "the guy" for the future but keep some facts in mind.  A matter of months ago he was cutting to 141 in a make weight every week grind; let him adjust to a new regimen and new rhythm to his training cycle.  Likewise, just months ago he was working on riding and escaping with 100% focus as part of his preparation; give him time to adjust to a new focus in his training and drilling and match preparation.  I would say wait until the next WTT cycle and see how he has adjusted without having just switched from folk.  He's a great kid with a tremendous work ethic and a great training environment for as long as he sticks with it--give him a few more cycles before digging his grave or, equally true, anointing him as heir apparent.  

Edited by Coach_J

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1 hour ago, IronChef said:


Would love to be as non-athletic as a two time NCAA champ

No one is saying Nick Lee isn't worthy of an NCAA championship but international wrestling has a different standard--particularly at 65 kg.

All one has to do is watch the final sequence of the Rashidov--Aliev match in the opening round of the 2019 worlds to appreciate what we are up against. There isn't a single contender for our world team spot that meets that standard and I am not sure if any of them ever will without PEDs. The only time our 65 kg squad will take a match from the world's elite is when we catch them in the off season out of shape. 

This is the deepest weight in the world that even a 65 kg-sized Dake would struggle to medal year in and year out. Just loaded with exceptional talent.

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48 minutes ago, TobyMcNugget said:

No one is saying Nick Lee isn't worthy of an NCAA championship but international wrestling has a different standard--particularly at 65 kg.

All one has to do is watch the final sequence of the Rashidov--Aliev match in the opening round of the 2019 worlds to appreciate what we are up against. There isn't a single contender for our world team spot that meets that standard and I am not sure if any of them ever will without PEDs. The only time our 65 kg squad will take a match from the world's elite is when we catch them in the off season out of shape. 

This is the deepest weight in the world that even a 65 kg-sized Dake would struggle to medal year in and year out. Just loaded with exceptional talent.

Out of all of the US contenders at 65, Y is our best hope. He has been trained in that world and is a student of the game like no other. He has his losses but that only seems to make him double down.  He walked through the NCAAs and this challenge tournament. He wont lose to Henderson and may not give up a point in their matches at Final X. Bold, I know, but he is getting better everyday and understands better than any the mountain he must climb to break the US drought at this weight class internationally. IMO he has the temperament, skill set and drive to get it done.

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Lee is a good athlete and a great wrestler.  I do think he lacks the athleticism, especially lateral movement and agility, that you usually see with the high level guys at 65kg. Honestly, I think he’s more athletic than maybe one or two guys in Final X.

 

Edited by ThorsteinV

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1 hour ago, CJE64 said:

Out of all of the US contenders at 65, Y is our best hope. He has been trained in that world and is a student of the game like no other. He has his losses but that only seems to make him double down.  He walked through the NCAAs and this challenge tournament. He wont lose to Henderson and may not give up a point in their matches at Final X. Bold, I know, but he is getting better everyday and understands better than any the mountain he must climb to break the US drought at this weight class internationally. IMO he has the temperament, skill set and drive to get it done.

Best, but O-BBQ last year yeah?

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3 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Best, but O-BBQ last year yeah?

Yeah it was an unfortunate result for his debut on the senior world team. I'd be curious to see what some of our other guys results were their first time they made it and went onto medal...

 @CJE64 wasn't guaranteeing a gold medal, just saying he's our best shot right now to do so. Who would you have in the 65kg weight last year or this year that you think has a better chance than Yianni does? 

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