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2 hours ago, TobyMcNugget said:

No one is saying Nick Lee isn't worthy of an NCAA championship but international wrestling has a different standard--particularly at 65 kg.

All one has to do is watch the final sequence of the Rashidov--Aliev match in the opening round of the 2019 worlds to appreciate what we are up against. There isn't a single contender for our world team spot that meets that standard and I am not sure if any of them ever will without PEDs. The only time our 65 kg squad will take a match from the world's elite is when we catch them in the off season out of shape. 

This is the deepest weight in the world that even a 65 kg-sized Dake would struggle to medal year in and year out. Just loaded with exceptional talent.

 

1 hour ago, CJE64 said:

Out of all of the US contenders at 65, Y is our best hope. He has been trained in that world and is a student of the game like no other. He has his losses but that only seems to make him double down.  He walked through the NCAAs and this challenge tournament. He wont lose to Henderson and may not give up a point in their matches at Final X. Bold, I know, but he is getting better everyday and understands better than any the mountain he must climb to break the US drought at this weight class internationally. IMO he has the temperament, skill set and drive to get it done.

These are both correct. 65 is absolutely insane on an annual basis and is perennially our weakest weight going back sixteen years which is a very bad combination. So the reason many have put all the eggs into the Yianni basket is because he had age-group success against his global counterparts, he brings a Euro style of counter-offense, and to be harshly blunt we have seen that peak Zain and JO aren't good enough so why not move onto the next 65kg prospect and hope for a different result? And while I hope someone breaks the drought, I wouldn't be surprised if we are revisiting this conversation in a few years with the exact same talking points.

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1 hour ago, DoubleHalf said:

Yeah it was an unfortunate result for his debut on the senior world team. I'd be curious to see what some of our other guys results were their first time they made it and went onto medal...

 @CJE64 wasn't guaranteeing a gold medal, just saying he's our best shot right now to do so. Who would you have in the 65kg weight last year or this year that you think has a better chance than Yianni does? 

 

1 hour ago, DoubleHalf said:

Yeah it was an unfortunate result for his debut on the senior world team. I'd be curious to see what some of our other guys results were their first time they made it and went onto medal...

 @CJE64 wasn't guaranteeing a gold medal, just saying he's our best shot right now to do so. Who would you have in the 65kg weight last year or this year that you think has a better chance than Yianni does? 

Thank you DH. Yes, disappointing indeed but a bit premature to write him off. The other contestants at 65 have hardly faired better and NL has yet to even try his hand on that stage or any int’l really.  Y has been out there and hopefully we will see better results.  It has long been a peeve of mine that we spend precious resources to send folks overseas and they get a grand total of one match.  Them’s the rules but hardly lends itself to building up one’s confidence and feel competing at that level. It also makes it way too dependent on the draw.  Heck, even peewee tourneys have wrestlebacks and don’t award two 3rd place medals. I will finish my rant with my usual broadside against the Olympic weights being aligned with non-Oly year weights rather than somewhere in the middle thus making the non-oly weight classes deeper and removing the stigma when non-Oly years are 3/4 of the sports biggest events.  It doesn’t match the bellcurve in any way and forces non-oly guys to either cut or fatten up significant amounts for OTT while leaving guys naturally suited for the Oly weights with a huge advantage. This is no way to run a sport to its best advantage.

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12 hours ago, VakAttack said:

His backside performance two years ago (or whenever) was overvalued, many said so at the time, though many (mostly Penn State fans) protested. He's still excellent and could develop into our guy at some point.

Was Vak's account hacked? No way the most sane post on this thread is coming from an Iowa fanboy.

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18 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Was Vak's account hacked? No way the most sane post on this thread is coming from an Iowa fanboy.

Vak had a bad case of DDS (Dan derangement syndrome) this past weekend and hasn't been himself since.  :)

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3 hours ago, CJE64 said:

Out of all of the US contenders at 65, Y is our best hope. He has been trained in that world and is a student of the game like no other. He has his losses but that only seems to make him double down.  He walked through the NCAAs and this challenge tournament. He wont lose to Henderson and may not give up a point in their matches at Final X. Bold, I know, but he is getting better everyday and understands better than any the mountain he must climb to break the US drought at this weight class internationally. IMO he has the temperament, skill set and drive to get it done.

Yes - and 2021 worlds aside, he has an international track record that few can match (below is from the UWW site). Most of our other 65kg contenders have struggled to win even the off-season tournaments outside of Pan Ams.

 

Diakomihalis, John Michael (USA) USA
 

 

Date Competition Style Age Group Weight Class Country Rank
2021-10-02 World Championship Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 12.
2021-06-08 RS - Waclaw Ziolkowski Memorial Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 1.
2020-03-06 Pan American Championship Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 1.
2019-08-02 Waclaw Ziolkowski Memorial Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 1.
2019-07-11 RS - Yasar Dogu Freestyle Seniors 65.0 USA 1.
2016-09-13 World Championship Freestyle Cadets 63.0 USA 1.
2015-08-25 World Championship Freestyle Cadets 58.0 USA 1.

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5 minutes ago, Red95 said:

Yes - and 2021 worlds aside, he has an international track record that few can match (below is from the UWW site). Most of our other 65kg contenders have struggled to win even the off-season tournaments outside of Pan Ams.

 

Diakomihalis, John Michael (USA) USA
   

 

Date Competition Style Age Group Weight Class Country Rank
2021-10-02 World Championship Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 12.
2021-06-08 RS - Waclaw Ziolkowski Memorial Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 1.
2020-03-06 Pan American Championship Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 1.
2019-08-02 Waclaw Ziolkowski Memorial Freestyle Seniors 65,0 USA 1.
2019-07-11 RS - Yasar Dogu Freestyle Seniors 65.0 USA 1.
2016-09-13 World Championship Freestyle Cadets 63.0 USA 1.
2015-08-25 World Championship Freestyle Cadets 58.0 USA 1.

Excellent. What about Juniors? Did he win one of those?

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7 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Excellent. What about Juniors? Did he win one of those?

I think he may have been sidelined with an injury at at least one of his opportunities to qualify for worlds as a Junior but I could be wrong...

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3 hours ago, DoubleHalf said:

Yeah it was an unfortunate result for his debut on the senior world team. I'd be curious to see what some of our other guys results were their first time they made it and went onto medal...

 @CJE64 wasn't guaranteeing a gold medal, just saying he's our best shot right now to do so. Who would you have in the 65kg weight last year or this year that you think has a better chance than Yianni does? 

Johnny D has the highest peak performance.  Unfortunately he is a lot like Nate Jackson in that he has a high chance of letting people score 8 points on him out the gate, just like he might score 10.

Nick Lee needs the year.  Give him that and he will be fine.

McKenna I believe has the highest basement.  Meaning if all parties do their worst, he will do better than the rest.

Henderson is a grinder, but is more susceptible to giving up 10 before he gets 8.  Kind of an opposite Johnny D.

Lugo would provide international opponents a problem I think.  His low center of gravity and raw power would put him in some matches you might not think.

Eiermani?  Rather an unknown at this point.  He won the 2021 US Open.

Desanto?  Not a Freestyler and likely a 61 KG if/when he does go Freestyle.  Will he go for 65 KG for Oly?  Unsure.

So who is our best option?  Now?  I think Johnny D as well.  Calling him our best option since before his series with Zain hurts.  Especially after such a poor showing at Worlds last year.

Do we have guys who could do better?  Yes.  I think Fix would be our best option by 2024 if he were to commit.  He has the style.  Gents who can run that underhook series do well on the international circuit.  He is committed to 57 KG, though.

It is why I believe the Hidlay Bros would do just fine if they were our reps.  Better than any current 65 KG rep we have.

Do we have anyone who runs a successful underhook series at 65 KG?

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8 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

Johnny D has the highest peak performance.  Unfortunately he is a lot like Nate Jackson in that he has a high chance of letting people score 8 points on him out the gate, just like he might score 10.

Nick Lee needs the year.  Give him that and he will be fine.

McKenna I believe has the highest basement.  Meaning if all parties do their worst, he will do better than the rest.

Henderson is a grinder, but is more susceptible to giving up 10 before he gets 8.  Kind of an opposite Johnny D.

Lugo would provide international opponents a problem I think.  His low center of gravity and raw power would put him in some matches you might not think.

 

100% on all of them (most importantly the Yainni/Mckenna comparison)
 

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1 hour ago, DoubleHalf said:

I think he may have been sidelined with an injury at at least one of his opportunities to qualify for worlds as a Junior but I could be wrong...

You are correct. His Cornell bio records no World Junior titles.

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21 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

McKenna I believe has the highest basement. 

This was Joey's last shot I believe. Lee gets a full year to train FS and then Yianni gets a full year to train FS. I don't believe Lugo will ever be a threat...

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4 minutes ago, Mphillips said:

This was Joey's last shot I believe. Lee gets a full year to train FS and then Yianni gets a full year to train FS. I don't believe Lugo will ever be a threat...

I think Mckenna will be a solid threat through the Olympics.
But I do think lee will drastically improve by next year if he starts competing

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I feel I may have grossly disrespected Pletcher by not mentioning him.

That said, if he wants to make a team he needs to get down to 61 KG.  His best chance is there, and we have a better wrestler waiting there (Fix) than anyone he's faced at 65 KG.

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2 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I feel I may have grossly disrespected Pletcher by not mentioning him.

That said, if he wants to make a team he needs to get down to 61 KG.  His best chance is there, and we have a better wrestler waiting there (Fix) than anyone he's faced at 65 KG.

I was so high on Pletcher coming out of college, but got to agree, he has to get lighter and better.

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1 hour ago, nhs67 said:

Lugo would provide international opponents a problem I think.  His low center of gravity and raw power would put him in some matches you might not think.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of him giving trouble to some international opponents giving his style, I also don't ever see him running up the score in any matches or being dynamic and quick enough to even keep it close against the top tier guys like Aliev, Musakaev, Oto, Rashidov, Bajrang etc... 

Yianni had beaten two of the guys above although he also had losses to Musakaev and the Bajrang bout wasn't friendly for him with all the traveling he'd done up to that point. 

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1 minute ago, DoubleHalf said:

 it close against the top tier guys like Aliev, Musakaev, Oto, Rashidov, Bajrang etc... 

 

They're all just so consistently better than us.
We'll need Yainni wrestling to the top of his abilities, and a decent draw.
Since Russia is out this year, thats helpful, but man there are a lot of tough dudes at 65kg worldwide

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12 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

They're all just so consistently better than us.
We'll need Yainni wrestling to the top of his abilities, and a decent draw.
Since Russia is out this year, thats helpful, but man there are a lot of tough dudes at 65kg worldwide

Otoguro is out this year (same for Takahashi at 57)

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I put a post up a while back where my thinking was Lee was going to be our guy by '24.  I still believe so.  I would have been surprised if he had been our guy this year.  But I think he has the curve to improve, to eventually be the guy and people have to come through him, as opposed as the one to come out of a wide open bracket.  

I think Yianni still has that curve to grow but for some reason, I don't see him making the team (24).  I just see him being passed up.

Mckenna is in a great situation and he would be my #2 pick for '24.

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