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4 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

he doesn't have world class attacks like a JB, Zahid, Yazdani

Actually, he does. Do you watch David Taylor's matches. He gets to legs in a variety of ways, from low ankle pics to high crotches, even singles that are switched off into doubles.

You seem to describe him as a completely defensive wrestler from neutral who has good mat skills. I have watched him for a long time, and he is super dangerous from neutral. Ask Yazdani. 

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11 minutes ago, spladle08 said:

Yeah, adding fantasy land, unicorns, and all that stuff really made me see the TD machine you've identified as DT.

Serviceable enough: meaning he doesn't have world class attacks like a JB, Zahid, Yazdani but he can negate their offense, wear em down, get them into his wheel house and ultimately win.

It's in no way a knock against him. He's simply World Class once he can get into his chess match of scramble-type positions. He doesn't have a lot of clean takedowns (yes I know he got the one at the Olympics)

But yeah If your rebuttal is "yeah right in your dreams" ....
That's fine you win
 

The counter point is that Taylor doesn't get a lot of takedowns because he is in the Olympics and World Championships. Meanwhile, Zahid does get a lot of takedowns because he is in the WTT Challenge Tournament.

These are in no way the same thing.

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The counter point is that Taylor doesn't get a lot of takedowns because he is in the Olympics and World Championships. Meanwhile, Zahid does get a lot of takedowns because he is in the WTT Challenge Tournament.
These are in no way the same thing.
Im not saying DT is bad at wrestling from neutral at all. I'm saying he's better at exploiting his opponents once they're in on his legs than he is creating his own, neutral offense.

I'm the biggest Chamizo homer out here. That dude is defensive to the core.

That's ok. DT. Doesn't have to have the best everything guys

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DT techs three Olympians in a row en route to Olympic gold, including the bronze medalist.

Meanwhile, Zahid got spanked by DT’s understudy, literally, and was sitting around getting fat at home.

But Zahid is the more offensively skilled wrestler. Got it. Makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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DT techs three Olympians in a row en route to Olympic gold, including the bronze medalist.

 

Meanwhile, Zahid got spanked by DT’s understudy, literally, and was sitting around getting fat at home.

 

But Zahid is the more offensively skilled wrestler. Got it. Makes sense.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I forgot how big of a homer you were.

 

Yes everyone DT has the best offensive attacks from neutral, nobody can match his offensive proficiency I was wrong and now i realize he has a ton of effective shots and doesn't depend on pace and defensive neutral wrestling to win matches.

Y'all were right I was wrong ;)

 

 

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20 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Joseph is thicker now than college and was always the smaller wrestler when he wrestled 165.

I am of the mind that him and Nolf should have swapped.  His Frosh season he went 165 because he could not beat Zain for 149 or Nolf for 157, simply put.

joseph was enormous at 165. he famously missed weight multiple times trying to wrestle 157 his redshirt year. only made it one time. there were even rumors at one point that he and hall would switch.

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55 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

joseph was enormous at 165. he famously missed weight multiple times trying to wrestle 157 his redshirt year. only made it one time. there were even rumors at one point that he and hall would switch.

Enormously rotund in the gut region.  Easily the highest percentage body fat, as far as starters go, on the team his junior and the beginning of his senior season.

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18 hours ago, spladle08 said:

I was saying I bet he has more of an advanced understanding of a variety of attacks/defenses than JB.
Who has shown you don't need to have a whole bag of tricks, just a couple really good ones, to make it to the top.

No no no. Just because JB knows how to wrestle his best does not mean he does not understand more about the sport than what he chooses to implement while competing. Also, offense and bag of tricks is just part of the game and you know that. 

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No no no. Just because JB knows how to wrestle his best does not mean he does not understand more about the sport than what he chooses to implement while competing. Also, offense and bag of tricks is just part of the game and you know that. 
Yep you're 100% right the guy who achieves the most understands all the positions at a higher level than anyone else .

I remember when Jason Tsirtsis won his NCAA title, although the results were all overtime/Ride-out victories. He could've been an offensive dynamo or a tilting machine.
He won the title he was the most versed in all positions. .

Now that we are on the topic I'd love to see JB launch Cenzo. I think if they wrestled he really should, I know JB has better throws and a better understanding of the position based on his results.


Y'all have really opened my eyes in this thread. Thank you.

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No no no. Just because JB knows how to wrestle his best does not mean he does not understand more about the sport than what he chooses to implement while competing. Also, offense and bag of tricks is just part of the game and you know that. 

For the record taking out my frustrations from earlier conversations on you.

Yes I know JB knows how to wrestle everywhere.

But also yes what's elevated him to his heights is explosive offense, mainly a double...

I'm not saying he's chopped liver. I'm saying Junior World Champ, NCAA champ, Mark Hall, might have a deeper "bag of tricks" ....

Not a.more effective "go-to offense"

Just a deeper set of techniques .

 

I can't believe this is "controversial"

 

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2 hours ago, nhs67 said:

Enormously rotund in the gut region.  Easily the highest percentage body fat, as far as starters go, on the team his junior and the beginning of his senior season.

Can't believe he was dragging the numbers so high over a 5 year span. I assume we could take a standard 165 @ 16.7% body fat plus a standard B1G 165 @ 13.8% and then add a standard deviation of ±1.5% because the most recent numbers were 2020-21 and as soon as Joseph left the numbers immediately declined THEREFORE we arrive at the logical conclusion that Chonky Cenzo was walking around at 32% body fat and should be shamed forever.

https://www.levelchanger.com/blog/2021/3/6/how-fat-are-college-wrestlers-2020-2021#:~:text=For NCAA Division I wrestling,to 16.2% depending on conference.

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1 minute ago, bnwtwg said:

Can't believe he was dragging the numbers so high over a 5 year span. I assume we could take a standard 165 @ 16.7% body fat plus a standard B1G 165 @ 13.8% and then add a standard deviation of ±1.5% because the most recent numbers were 2020-21 and as soon as Joseph left the numbers immediately declined THEREFORE we arrive at the logical conclusion that Chonky Cenzo was walking around at 32% body fat and should be shamed forever.

https://www.levelchanger.com/blog/2021/3/6/how-fat-are-college-wrestlers-2020-2021#:~:text=For NCAA Division I wrestling,to 16.2% depending on conference.

I would have said ~30%, so yeah.  You're right, I guess.

Good info, that.

Also approve of the Chonky Cenzo moniker.

Also, is Deakin at a negative number?  Like -7% bodyfat?

In any case the reason he was the lowest was because of who was set to start on the roster, not how old or 'declined' he may have been - which weren't my words, they were yours.  Penn State had a very lean squad.  He was just the Chonkmonster.

 

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1 hour ago, spladle08 said:

Yep you're 100% right the guy who achieves the most understands all the positions at a higher level than anyone else .

I remember when Jason Tsirtsis won his NCAA title, although the results were all overtime/Ride-out victories. He could've been an offensive dynamo or a tilting machine.
He won the title he was the most versed in all positions. .

Now that we are on the topic I'd love to see JB launch Cenzo. I think if they wrestled he really should, I know JB has better throws and a better understanding of the position based on his results.


Y'all have really opened my eyes in this thread. Thank you.

I see what you did there.  Sarcasm.

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6 minutes ago, nhs67 said:

I would have said ~30%, so yeah.  You're right, I guess.

Good info, that.

Also approve of the Chonky Cenzo moniker.

Also, is Deakin at a negative number?  Like -7% bodyfat?

In any case the reason he was the lowest was because of who was set to start on the roster, not how old or 'declined' he may have been - which weren't my words, they were yours.  Penn State had a very lean squad.  He was just the Chonkmonster.

 

I too was thinking between 25-30%

You think Deakin would be successful if he just quit cutting and went up to 79kg?
or do you think that's even an option, like is he even cutting?
His super thin legs make me think he is naturally a lighter guy, so he may struggle to keep weight on.
I could be totally off but we all, always wonder how he makes the weight, and those guys are usually the "Forever skinny" guys.

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13 minutes ago, uncle bernard said:

yeah...no

I would think so.

2020 start of year...

125 - Meredith

133 - RBY

141 - Lee

149 - Verkleeren

157 - Berge

165 - Joseph

174 - Hall

184 - Brooks

197 - Rasheed

285 - Cassar

2019 nominal...

125 - Shunk

133 - RBY

141 - Lee

149 - Berge

157 - Nolf

165 - Joseph

174 - Hall

184 - Rasheed

197 - Nickal

285 - Cassar

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Can't believe he was dragging the numbers so high over a 5 year span. I assume we could take a standard 165 @ 16.7% body fat plus a standard B1G 165 @ 13.8% and then add a standard deviation of ±1.5% because the most recent numbers were 2020-21 and as soon as Joseph left the numbers immediately declined THEREFORE we arrive at the logical conclusion that Chonky Cenzo was walking around at 32% body fat and should be shamed forever.

https://www.levelchanger.com/blog/2021/3/6/how-fat-are-college-wrestlers-2020-2021#:~:text=For NCAA Division I wrestling,to 16.2% depending on conference.

I clicked on the link to explore the data and it was a dead link. Anyone have this data by chance?

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I'm just going to cut and paste the info* sorry if its too much:
*Having trouble getting 2 graphs in there so doing them on a second post

Every once in a while we drill down into the college weight certification data. For this past season, 2020 - 2021, we looked at 8,413 wrestlers rostered by 298 NCAA and NAIA wrestling programs. This data is from the week of 3/1/2021, just in time for the Big Ten and NCAA Championships.

You can explore the data on your own here.

From this initial group, 7,907 wrestlers had a certification weight above their Minimum Weight Class (MWC), meaning these athletes must lose weight to achieve MWC. Average body fat % at certification for this group is 16.2% with a range of 14% to 29% depending on MWC.

 

Body Fat % NCAA and NAIA Wrestling Teams, 2020-2021

If all wrestlers in this group dropped to their MWC, the average body fat is 7.1% with a narrow range of 6.5% to 7.7% excluding the 285 weight class. As in 2019-2020, if all wrestlers (except 285 pounders) sucked down to their MWC the fattest weight class is 125 pounds at an average 7.7% body fat.

 

Body Fat % by NCAA Wrestling Weight Class, 2020-2021

For NCAA Division I wrestling teams, average body fat % at certification is 15.3% with a range of 13.8% to 16.2% depending on conference.

 

Body Fat % By NCAA Division I Wrestling Conference, 2020-2021

Other Fun Facts

  • Average roster size: 28.2

  • Redshirts: 20% of all rostered wrestlers

  • 1st year of eligibility: 41% of all rostered wrestlers

  • Average weight of all wrestlers at certification: 175.8 pounds

  • Aggregate weight of all wrestlers at certification: 739 tons

  • Aggregate drop to get to Minimum Weight Class: 66 tons

  • At certification and on average, a wrestler from:

    • Univ of Michigan weighs more than Michigan State by 2.7 pounds

    • Univ of Oklahoma weighs more than Oklahoma State by .9 pounds

    • Iowa State weighs more than Univ of Iowa by 1.4 pounds

    • Penn State weight more than Ohio State by 1.6 pounds

    • Army weighs more than Navy by 14.2 pounds

    • Air Force weighs more than Navy by 1.3 pounds



 

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