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Zelph

How Dake overtakes Burroughs

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Kyle Dake is closer than anyone else in the US to Jordan Burroughs.

 

I think you may be jumping the gun a bit. All the evidence seems to point to the fact that, at the top of 74kg in the US, it is all about style match ups. Dake beat Taylor, Dake beat Howe in a marathon, Taylor took it to Howe, Burroughs crushed Dake and then beat him in OT (although not as close as it sounds), Taylor wrestled pretty well with Burroughs, Howe is the only person in the last few years to take a period from Burroughs (although that doesn't matter anymore).

 

Your statement here is completely dismissive to Howe and Taylor - and that is pretty ridiculous. Taylor is still in college and hasn't even begun to focus on freestyle yet (and Dake has only just begun).

 

Dake has beaten Taylor 5 times in the past year. He beat Howe the first time he and Howe were remotely close in weight. Dake is absolutely "closer" to Burroughs than anyone else is. With that said....he isn't close.

 

Why is he absolutely closer to Burroughs than anyone else is? Did you just completely ignore everything I wrote in the post that you quoted. The results vary between the guys at the top. Dake beats Taylor (albeit close), Dake beats Howe close, Taylor destorys Howe, Burroughs destorys Dake and then beats him close (although not as close as the score looks), last chance he got Howe was right there with Burroughs, Taylor was pretty tight with Burroughs (more so than Dake was even).

 

You missed the entire point to my post. Dake right now has the edge on Taylor and Howe, sure. But to say he is closest to Burroughs is not really the same thing. I mean be was taken down to the wire by Howe - and then Taylor crushed Howe...Taylor hung very close with Burroughs - and then Burroughs teched Dake - and then beat him in OT. I think if you wrestle that bracket 10 times the only thing that comes out the same at this point is Burroughs winning. Dake may be there the most to face him - but not 10 out of 10.

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"You missed the entire point to my post. Dake right now has the edge on Taylor and Howe, sure. But to say he is closest to Burroughs is not really the same thing. I mean be was taken down to the wire by Howe - and then Taylor crushed Howe...Taylor hung very close with Burroughs - and then Burroughs teched Dake - and then beat him in OT. I think if you wrestle that bracket 10 times the only thing that comes out the same at this point is Burroughs winning. Dake may be there the most to face him - but not 10 out of 10."

 

What match was Taylor very close with Burroughs?

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"You missed the entire point to my post. Dake right now has the edge on Taylor and Howe, sure. But to say he is closest to Burroughs is not really the same thing. I mean be was taken down to the wire by Howe - and then Taylor crushed Howe...Taylor hung very close with Burroughs - and then Burroughs teched Dake - and then beat him in OT. I think if you wrestle that bracket 10 times the only thing that comes out the same at this point is Burroughs winning. Dake may be there the most to face him - but not 10 out of 10."

 

What match was Taylor very close with Burroughs?

 

Obviously in the only one they wrestled. 3-0 / 1-0. "Very close" was a bad phrasing - "hanging with" would make much more sense.

 

*Edit: actually I did write "hung very close"...so I take my correction back.

 

That is completely besides the point I was making anyway.

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Just giving you a hard time, but the JB/Taylor match wasn't close. Did you watch it? The first period looked like a dad playing on his knees with his 4 year old son. Taylor is a looooonnnnggg way from close with JB.

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PA-Fan,

 

There are many issues I would like to address in your last few posts that I can't at the moment due to my computer acting up on me; hopefully I get to go through all those issues by the end of the day. For now, I just ask if you are asserting that Taylor's match with Burroughs was closer than Dake's second match with Burroughs? Also, how would you describe Dake and Taylor's last match? You pointed out how Dake/Burroughs 2 wasn't as close as the score indicates multiple times but didn't do so for Dake/Taylor. Do you think Burroughs second win over Dake was more decisive than Dake over Taylor? If so, why? Sheesh it's taking me forever to type on this device so I have to stop here unfortunately, there are some apparent inconsistencies that I will (hopefully) respond to later! Stay tuned!

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Let me try to clear a few things up....I didn't say "Taylor is very close to Burroughs"....I don't think he, Dake, Howe, or anyone else is really all that close to beating Burroughs - let alone taking his spot.

 

What I did say was that Taylor was able to hang close and wrestle with Burroughs - after the first period shalacking.

 

I am not asserting that Taylor's match with Burroughs was closer than Dake's second one...all I said was the score of the Dake vs. Burroughs second match made it seem closer than it was.

 

Do I think Burrough's second win over Dake was more decisive than Dake over Taylor? Decisive? No, not exactly - I mean it went to OT. But do I think Taylor was more in the match vs. Dake than Dake was in match 2 vs Burroughs (as in did he have a better shot to win against Dake than Dake did with Burroughs)...yes.

 

Just giving you a hard time, but the JB/Taylor match wasn't close. Did you watch it? The first period looked like a dad playing on his knees with his 4 year old son. Taylor is a looooonnnnggg way from close with JB.

 

I get it...and I don't mean to make it sound like it was close...Taylor is a far way off of Burroughs in freestyle without a doubt...all I said is he was able to hang and wrestle with him..I should have added "after the first period."

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I will say what I said last weekend:

 

I find it ironic that some state that Dake/Taylor/Howe will adjust and get closer to Burroughs, and never once consider that Burroughs is capable of making adjustments, and quite possibly could keep the gap as wide as it is today.

 

With that said, I agree with one posted who answered the question which was asked: The only way Dake overtakes Burroughs is when Burroughs decides to retire. Just my opinion.....if that differs from yours, so be it.

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PA-fan,

As a Jersey guy I'm a huge Burroughs fan. In fact I coached against him while he was in high school. But how much closer can you get to beating Burroughs? He was winning the match with under a minute to go and it went to OT where IMO Dake was actually in a position to score. He was actually behind Burroughs.

 

I do agree with Holtfan though that Burroughs could widen the gap. He now knows what Dake is going to try to do against him and can make adjustments.

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First thing dake needs to do is go overseas to see how he stacks up to others in the world. Burroughs style just blows through everyone and just might be the best representative for years to come, regardless if dake can top him once or twice.

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First thing dake needs to do is go overseas to see how he stacks up to others in the world. Burroughs style just blows through everyone and just might be the best representative for years to come, regardless if dake can top him once or twice.

EXACTLY. Most objective statement from scribe in a long time on Dake, which I don't mean as a slight since I would expect to be the same way if I had a more competitive wrestling team to cheer for. I won't be surprised at all if Dake beats Burroughs eventually (he's too good to be surprised by anything that he does), but JB has a firm grasp on the spot until someone proves themselves beyond a single upset.

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Exactly my thoughts Scribe. I am optimistic he will do well, possibly even a medal threat had he got the spot, but we just don't know how he will do yet until we see him in some overseas wrestling tournaments. And Burroughs is a monster here and whatever country he enters tournaments, with the best from around the world entered as well. Dake has not. Dake is a question mark in this matter. .

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After watching the WTT I am more impressed with Dake than ever before. His long grueling bout with Howe was epic and I definitely think a fresh Dake vs. a Burroughs who would have went through the same matches he did would have yielded different results. Obviously Burroughs earned his position but after watching Dake I'm convinced he can win World and Olympic titles. It's too bad that their are not more weights internationally or the potential to enter more than one wrestler per weight at World Championships. Great wrestling and great weight class for USA.

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The thing that's so potent about Burroughs is that when he needs to score, he can and does. There were many times in his international career thus far when he needed a score and he got it done. I'm not sure that Dake can do the same. He scores most of his points off of counter offense. He wrestled the Iranian and basically did nothing until the clinch. If Dake needs a score to win does he have the ability to generate that offense and get the job done? Personally against the world's best I don't think so.

 

I also don't understand why people put so much emphasis on their second match and not the first. Had Burroughs wrestled Dake in a world championship we would be thinking he has a snowballs chance in hell of beating him.

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I'm ocnvinced that some people just want Dake to beat JB rather than watching these matches. Burroughs took Dake down at will, in both matches, period. OT or not ... anyone watching the match was not in doubt of the outcome. I saw nothing in that match that proved to me

 

#1 Dake could overatke Burroughs

#2 it would happen anytime soon

 

People act as though Burroughs is standing still, when he's a relative newbie to FS himself and he's also improving a great clip.

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People act as though Burroughs is standing still, when he's a relative newbie to FS himself and he's also improving a great clip.

 

This is the scariest and most insane thing about Burroughs...the fact that he is still improving and is relaively new to freestyle - and still has a World Title and Olympic title under his belt.

 

You can see it very clearly if you watch him from the Trials when he won his first spot - the the Worlds - to the Olympics - and to the Trials this year. He looks and moves so much better - and has closed so many gaps in his wrestling. It is almost unbelievable.

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Yes, Dake will keep getting better but so will Burroughs. JB is still new to freestyle and improving each time out. JB took 4 shots against Dake in their first match and finished on 3 of them leading to a tech. Dake will only surpass JB when JB plateaus AND Dake equals or surpasses in skill, JB is injured, or JB retires. Right now JB is up 2-0 on Dake. Dake, Taylor, and Howe will certainly help JB stay on top of his game.

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