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Flying-Tiger

Ok, I'm Officially A Metcalf Fan

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As a NJ guy I'm a huge Metcalf fan and always have been. If you get the time you should look up Metcalf's speech he gave at a camp

A long time ago I posted on YouTube. I'm glad he made the team as he's the best man for us. When JO beat him at the open it was like he squeaked by Metcalf and the rules were very helpful. Oliver is going to be the man, but it's Metcalf's time right now. I'm glad Oliver has to pay his dues a little. Metcalf definitely has. That defeat to Frayer was heartbreaking. Glad he stuck with it. With the rules he can win a world title IMO. Brands will have him tuned like a fine machine.

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Ankle picker's post got eaten.

 

As a NJ guy I'm a huge Metcalf fan and always have been. If you get the time you should look up Metcalf's speech he gave at a camp

A long time ago I posted on YouTube. I'm glad he made the team as he's the best man for us. When JO beat him at the open it was like he squeaked by Metcalf and the rules were very helpful. Oliver is going to be the man, but it's Metcalf's time right now. I'm glad Oliver has to pay his dues a little. Metcalf definitely has. That defeat to Frayer was heartbreaking. Glad he stuck with it. With the rules he can win a world title IMO. Brands will have him tuned like a fine machine.

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"Don't bother. He has never been a fan of Metcalf because of what he does to a lot of New Jersey studs he faces. i.e:Burroughs, Molinaro, Russell,Caldwell-All-Star match, etc.".

 

Lol, Caldwell crushed Metcalf in the biggest match of his collegiate career, and Burroughs is so far past Metcalf it's not worth discussing.

 

So, just to be clear, college matches matter for the discussion of Caldwell vs. Metcalf but not Metcalf vs. Burroughs. Metcalf is far beyond Caldwell right now, but that doesn't seem to matter...

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I was impressed by the way Metcalf wrestled. It seems he's fugured out he needs to rely on counter offense or just defense until his opponents get tired. Oliver is a "tweener" who is going to have a problem of getting big enough for 145.5

 

Metcalf has a chance at a bronze no higher. The new rules definitely help the guys with the bigger gas tanks.

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Anything can happen. Yes, 66kg is loaded, (Yonemitsu, Taghavi, et al are great), but Metcalf has a ton of international experience now.

 

His silver at the Yarygin, his performance at WTTs, and the new rules should give him a lot of confidence. We'll see.

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Guest Hammerlock3

I don't buy the tweener comments about Oliver.

 

And these "bronze no higher" comments are inane.

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"Don't bother. He has never been a fan of Metcalf because of what he does to a lot of New Jersey studs he faces. i.e:Burroughs, Molinaro, Russell,Caldwell-All-Star match, etc.".

 

Lol, Caldwell crushed Metcalf in the biggest match of his collegiate career, and Burroughs is so far past Metcalf it's not worth discussing.

 

So, just to be clear, college matches matter for the discussion of Caldwell vs. Metcalf but not Metcalf vs. Burroughs. Metcalf is far beyond Caldwell right now, but that doesn't seem to matter...

 

----

 

I was going to post something similar, but you beat me to it Vak.

 

A fine example of the old double standard at work.

 

All the guys Metcalf beat in college, including one TF of Caldwell, and multiple wins over Burroughs, don't count for anything. What has happened post collegiate - Metcalf winning WTT's (his second), and Caldwell having been beaten by high schooler Tsirtsis, in his comeback attempt, doesn't count.

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"Don't bother. He has never been a fan of Metcalf because of what he does to a lot of New Jersey studs he faces. i.e:Burroughs, Molinaro, Russell,Caldwell-All-Star match, etc.".

 

Lol, Caldwell crushed Metcalf in the biggest match of his collegiate career, and Burroughs is so far past Metcalf it's not worth discussing.

 

So, just to be clear, college matches matter for the discussion of Caldwell vs. Metcalf but not Metcalf vs. Burroughs. Metcalf is far beyond Caldwell right now, but that doesn't seem to matter...

 

No, Caldwell is no longer wrestling. While they were competing, however, Caldwell dominated Metcalf, including a pin, and beating in the national finals. Not sure if you remember that match or not.

Metcalf and Burroughs are both still wrestling, and a comparison between the two at this point would be, well, embarrassing.

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"Don't bother. He has never been a fan of Metcalf because of what he does to a lot of New Jersey studs he faces. i.e:Burroughs, Molinaro, Russell,Caldwell-All-Star match, etc.".

 

Lol, Caldwell crushed Metcalf in the biggest match of his collegiate career, and Burroughs is so far past Metcalf it's not worth discussing.

 

So, just to be clear, college matches matter for the discussion of Caldwell vs. Metcalf but not Metcalf vs. Burroughs. Metcalf is far beyond Caldwell right now, but that doesn't seem to matter...

 

No, Caldwell is no longer wrestling. While they were competing, however, Caldwell dominated Metcalf, including a pin, and beating in the national finals. Not sure if you remember that match or not.

Metcalf and Burroughs are both still wrestling, and a comparison between the two at this point would be, well, embarrassing.

 

So we should only pay attention to the things that are in favor of your argument and ignore all other evidence that works against you. Seems legit.

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Let me help NJWC out, you guys don't seem to be absorbing this. New Jersey is better than every other state, and it's not close. Why that's difficult to understand, I have no idea...

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Let me help NJWC out, you guys don't seem to be absorbing this. New Jersey is better than every other state, and it's not close. Why that's difficult to understand, I have no idea...

 

Yeah, because that's what I said. One of the Iowa fanboys posted something regarding Metcalf owning guys from NJ. In the interest of historical accuracy, I presented the facts. Caldwell got the better of Metcalf head to hear, including a pin and a beating in the national finals. Had he not been injured, Caldwell would have won another title the following year.

Burroughs will be remembered as an all time great, period. To take shots at a guy who is arguably the best wrestler on the planet, something Metcalf will never be, seems kind of silly.

 

Want to pile on that he beat a younger Molinaro? Have at it.

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Let me help NJWC out, you guys don't seem to be absorbing this. New Jersey is better than every other state, and it's not close. Why that's difficult to understand, I have no idea...

 

Yeah, because that's what I said. One of the Iowa fanboys posted something regarding Metcalf owning guys from NJ. In the interest of historical accuracy, I presented the facts. Caldwell got the better of Metcalf head to hear, including a pin and a beating in the national finals. Had he not been injured, Caldwell would have won another title the following year.

Burroughs will be remembered as an all time great, period. To take shots at a guy who is arguably the best wrestler on the planet, something Metcalf will never be, seems kind of silly.

 

Want to pile on that he beat a younger Molinaro? Have at it.

 

So, just to recap:

 

Caldwell vs. Metcalf head-to-head results: Very important.

 

Burroughs vs. Metcalf head-to-head results: Not important.

 

Seems totally fair-minded to me...

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The comparison with Caldwell ended when Caldwell stopped competing. When they were peers, Caldwell was better and proved it.

Burroughs and Metcalf are still competing/peers. Do you think there is any comparison between the two? There were plenty of guys in NJ who beat Burroughs in HS, do you think they stake any claim to being better at this point?

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The comparison with Caldwell ended when Caldwell stopped competing. When they were peers, Caldwell was better and proved it.

Burroughs and Metcalf are still competing/peers. Do you think there is any comparison between the two? There were plenty of guys in NJ who beat Burroughs in HS, do you think they stake any claim to being better at this point?

 

So, to take your awesome logic to the extremely fair conclusion we must reach, if Metcalf had stopped competing to coach or something immediately after college, you would be perfectly comfortable with saying Metcalf > Burroughs?

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Nice try, fanboy. What I am saying is that we won't know that Caldwell would or would not have been better than Metcalf long term. We do know he was better when they were peers.

Burroughs and Metcalf continued to compete in the sport, and it's obvious how that turned out, right? Who is the better wrestler?

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Nice try, fanboy. What I am saying is that we won't know that Caldwell would or would not have been better than Metcalf long term. We do know he was better when they were peers.

Burroughs and Metcalf continued to compete in the sport, and it's obvious how that turned out, right? Who is the better wrestler?

 

I asked you a question. Why are you dodging it? Your logic indicates that if Metcalf had simply stopped wrestling after college, we could sit here and say that Metcalf > Burroughs. Is that correct, or not?

 

You're using a shifting standard to try to have it both ways. Here's what I think: Metcalf is the better college wrestler of the 3, Burroughs is the better International wrestler of the 3.

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I didn't shift anything. Caldwell gets an incomplete for college, due to injury. When Metcalf finished his college career, he did so with a 2nd place finish. Who was he second best to? Caldwell, who had a winning record, and two easy wins vs Metcalf.

Burroughs has CLEARLY lapped BM in the sport. It's not worth comparing, right? Did Metcalf have a better career than Burroughs? Meh, maybe? Burroughs finished his career with back to back titles, including a Hodge. He was the best wrestler in college his last season. Was Metcalf? Nope.

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I didn't shift anything. Caldwell gets an incomplete for college, due to injury. When Metcalf finished his college career, he did so with a 2nd place finish. Who was he second best to? Caldwell, who had a winning record, and two easy wins vs Metcalf.

Burroughs has CLEARLY lapped BM in the sport. It's not worth comparing, right? Did Metcalf have a better career than Burroughs? Meh, maybe? Burroughs finished his career with back to back titles, including a Hodge. He was the best wrestler in college his last season. Was Metcalf? Nope.

 

You're completely shifting it. When Caldwell finished his college career, he had a 5th place finish. That same year, Metcalf won. Is it Metcalf's fault that Caldwell couldn't beat guys like Churella or Bubba Jenkins? And Metcalf finished his career with a title and is a much better Freestyler. But all that matters is that Caldwell beat Metcalf 2 of 3 times.

 

Then, with Burroughs in college, this is where you keep shifting the argument. With regards to Caldwell-Metcalf, the head to head was the most important thing, disregarding the superior career. Now, with Burroughs, the much more lopsided head to head matters not at all because Burroughs finished slightly better and because Burroughs is clearly the better Freestyler.

 

Really, this is quality analysis by you.

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Caldwell was wrestling with one arm in his final NCAA tourney. Everyone knew it. When he was healthy, he threw BM around. Is there any match for a collegian bigger than an NCAA final?

Burroughs in his final year of NCAA wrestling had surpassed BM, and proved it by winning a WORLD title a couple of months out of college.

Why is this tough for you to grasp? Had Caldwell been a 1X AA, who happened to have BM's number, I'd agree with you. He was an undefeated champ who EASILY beat BM for the title. Easily. E-A-S-I-L-Y.

Burroughs is the best wrestler in America, and possibly the world.

 

Thems the facts, my man.

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Again you're ignoring your blatant standard shifting to meet your argument. Caldwell is better than Metcalf because he beat him in college. Burroughs is better than Metcalf because he's better now. Moving on to your post...

 

Caldwell was wrestling with one arm in his final NCAA tourney.

 

Not a fact. Your opinion.

 

Everyone knew it.

 

Again, not a fact.

 

When he was healthy, he threw BM around.

 

Except for that time he got teched.

 

Is there any match for a collegian bigger than an NCAA final?

 

No. Caldwell only got to one of them, though, including before he was "wrestling with one arm".

 

Burroughs in his final year of NCAA wrestling had surpassed BM, and proved it by winning a WORLD title a couple of months out of college.

 

Again, not a fact.

 

Why is this tough for you to grasp?

 

Because it's all opinion trying to be passed off as fact.

 

Had Caldwell been a 1X AA, who happened to have BM's number, I'd agree with you.

 

Caldwell is a 2x AA who happened to beat Metcalf 2 out of 3 times, so it's way better obviously.

 

He was an undefeated champ who EASILY beat BM for the title
.

 

Caldwell was not an undefeated champion.

 

Easily. E-A-S-I-L-Y.

 

ALso, not a fact. That was Caldwell taking the lung timeout in the 3rd period.

 

Burroughs is the best wrestler in America, and possibly the world.

 

Again, not a fact. "Who is best" is an opinion by definition.

 

Thems the facts, my man.

 

You don't know what facts are.

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Caldwell was wrestling with a severely injured shoulder, relegating him to essentially one arm. Fact.

Caldwell beat BM 2 out of 3 (if you include that exhibition match, otherwise is was 2 for 2 with a pin, and an emasculation in the NCAA finals).

Caldwell was a 2X AA, who had surpassed BM by their junior year. I'll give you that BM was better as a freshman.

Caldwell was undefeated, other than an injury default. That carries less weight than an exhibition loss.

Caldwell EASILY beat BM in the finals. I felt bad for the Iowa kid, getting shown up like that. Heck, he was so embarrassed he lost his cool and tried to injure DC after the match. Poor wrestling, AND poor sportsmanship.

Is it not a fact that JB is the best wrestler in America? Would you argue that point? Well, YOU probably would. Anyone who knows the sport wouldn't.

JB is POSSIBLY the best wrestler in the world. Again, only a dunce would argue against that possibility. He HASN'T LOST INTERNATIONALLY IN TWO YEARS.

 

I'd say my grasp of the facts are far tighter than your's, at this point. Nice try.

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Caldwell was getting worked when he injury defaulted.

 

At the end of the season he was clearly the best wrestler in the country. I was at that NCAAs and was in awe of how he wrestled. A stud no doubt but trying to spin that as an undefeated season is dishonest.

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VakAttack,

 

I understand that NJwc is shifting standards a bit an also passing off a few opinions as facts, but I think you also may be taking the opinion/fact thing too far. For example, it's not a fact that Burroughs is currently America's best wrestler? You may be able to technically say he isn't, but is that realistic? If taken too literally you could also say an EXTREMELY modest statement like "Burroughs is a top 10 current US wrestler" is also an opinion. Do we really want to go there?

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