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HurricaneWrestling2

College Wrestler Dies from Heatstroke

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7 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

This occurred in a 2020 practice, but I don't recall it being publicized before.  Since the article is dated today, perhaps it has been kept quiet until now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10882227/College-wrestler-dies-heatstroke-pleas-water-denied-poor-performance.html

A little weird but if you google articles come out as of last August but nothing earlier that I can see yet. About a year and a half later.

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Yikes. You HAVE to know the line between pushing hard and pushing too hard as a coach. Nearly every coach from High School up has “denied” water to their wrestlers at some point. However, this sure reads as over the top. 
 

The police report itself is rather damning. I would be very surprised if the 2 former coaches don’t lose the civil case. 

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This just gets worse. Another newspaper report says that this wrestler was taking an ADD medication linked to hyperthermia and that the college was aware of this.  ("Because of his condition, when Grant went to college, the officers were told that Grants parents said he received a medical exemption: that he could have access to water any time he wanted it.")

The same article also states that "the police report says Grant was permitted extra water breaks during practice because the Adderall often caused his mouth to be dry."  Nonetheless, when "one witness attempted to wrap ice in a towel and place it on Grant he was stopped by the coach because Grant didn't perform well on the hill."

https://local12.com/news/investigates/athletes-at-risk/wrestler-champion-police-asked-water-casket-university-cumberlands-kentucky-wrestling-naia-cincinnati-wrongful-death-lawsuit-grant-brace-heat-stroke-preventable-death-collapsed

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 Maryland and (iirc) D-III Frostburg State had the same "tough love" approach to hydration kill a football player.

Edited by ugarte

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

Nearly every coach from High School up has “denied” water to their wrestlers at some point.

Sad but true, though fewer and fewer coaches still do this. There was some sorta shift on this issue between mid-nineties and ~2005. 1997 has had a lot to do with the new normal. 

I would imagine that any coach without years and years of admin, wrestler, and community support would be called on the carpet as soon as word reached home. What has been your experience?

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6 minutes ago, ionel said:

Why?!  Sure back in the 70s & 80s before all knew better.  You need hydration to train effectively so why would any coach be doing such today?

I can't read your tone here. If you are serious, then here's an answer: Coaches deny water because they believe that the wrestler is malingering. If the kid takes a break everytime stand-restand drills start, the coach might think the kid is soft or lazy. Obviously sometimes the coach is right. Still, any coach that has any sense will find some other way to get the kid to work.

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2 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

I can't read your tone here. If you are serious, then here's an answer: Coaches deny water because they believe that the wrestler is malingering. If the kid takes a break everytime stand-restand drills start, the coach might think the kid is soft or lazy. Obviously sometimes the coach is right. Still, any coach that has any sense will find some other way to get the kid to work.

If you think this, kick the kid off the team. After the numerous documented football deaths due to this, there are no excuses to a coach acting like this. It should be criminal. 

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21 minutes ago, ionel said:

Why?!  Sure back in the 70s & 80s before all knew better.  You need hydration to train effectively so why would any coach be doing such today?

don't think we were ever denied water, but in the early 90's it was heavily discouraged if you needed to get water in the middle of a practice.  you were considered weak and would get some sort of discipline after.  that sort of attitude needs to be changed to prevent death.  in my case, these policies were even applied to young children under ten.  

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16 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

If you think this, kick the kid off the team. After the numerous documented football deaths due to this, there are no excuses to a coach acting like this. It should be criminal. 

Absolutely. I was just explaining why some deluded coach might do this.

Edit: Real question: Isn't it criminal already?

Edit 2: Wouldn't kicking a kid off the team for asking for water be about as bad?

Edited by jackwebster

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13 minutes ago, jackwebster said:

Absolutely. I was just explaining why some deluded coach might do this.

Edit: Real question: Isn't it criminal already?

Edit 2: Wouldn't kicking a kid off the team for asking for water be about as bad?

I’m saying if a kid is so lazy that you are at the point of denying him water, it’s time to just kick him off the team. In reality, endurance should be built up over time-nothing wrong with an athlete getting in better shape from November to March-and taking breaks during that process. 
 

As for whether it’s criminal..No charges in almost two years makes me think it’s not. If this were fraternity hazing and not college athletics it would be. 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Tragic news!!  Thoughts go out to the family!

Would love to know the true story other than what a new paper, or news website spins it to how they want it to sound like happened so they can get reads and clicks.  Not trying to downplay the death of anyone, but seriously people, your selective outrage based on what you read from a media source is tiresome.  Can't people just be "sad" anymore for something bad that happened...and not start organizing a mob to "get that person" who they think is to blame, when they don't even know the whole story?  Social media is a disease sometimes....

Reminds me of the headlines a few years back that read "College Wrestlers Beat a Man To Death".  The story read by saying "allegedly" 3 college wrestlers beat this man at a drive threw and left him to die along the building.  You should have seen the comments in the comment sections...absolutely obliterating the wrestlers.  About a week later, the true story came out, a guy was drunk and got out of the car to yell at the drive through worker and then started yelling at whomever was driving the car he was in, so the 3 wrestlers got out and told him to just get back in his car and leave, well the guy goes after them, throws a punch, misses and falls down, hits his head and knocks himself out.  The wrestlers drug him out of the way and propped him up against the wall, and then left.  The guy died.  Anyway, I emailed the editor because there was no re-traction of the articles they had written and didn't provide a follow-up article.  The editor was a complete A-hole if you couldn't have guessed.  Absolutely pathetic.  But yet, here we still are with people getting all bent out of shape about headlines without even knowing what probably truly happened.  Again, loss of life is tragic and sad, but man...leave at that sometimes.

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23 minutes ago, dman115 said:

Tragic news!!  Thoughts go out to the family!

Would love to know the true story other than what a new paper, or news website spins it to how they want it to sound like happened so they can get reads and clicks.  Not trying to downplay the death of anyone, but seriously people, your selective outrage based on what you read from a media source is tiresome.  Can't people just be "sad" anymore for something bad that happened...and not start organizing a mob to "get that person" who they think is to blame, when they don't even know the whole story?  Social media is a disease sometimes....

Reminds me of the headlines a few years back that read "College Wrestlers Beat a Man To Death".  The story read by saying "allegedly" 3 college wrestlers beat this man at a drive threw and left him to die along the building.  You should have seen the comments in the comment sections...absolutely obliterating the wrestlers.  About a week later, the true story came out, a guy was drunk and got out of the car to yell at the drive through worker and then started yelling at whomever was driving the car he was in, so the 3 wrestlers got out and told him to just get back in his car and leave, well the guy goes after them, throws a punch, misses and falls down, hits his head and knocks himself out.  The wrestlers drug him out of the way and propped him up against the wall, and then left.  The guy died.  Anyway, I emailed the editor because there was no re-traction of the articles they had written and didn't provide a follow-up article.  The editor was a complete A-hole if you couldn't have guessed.  Absolutely pathetic.  But yet, here we still are with people getting all bent out of shape about headlines without even knowing what probably truly happened.  Again, loss of life is tragic and sad, but man...leave at that sometimes.

There's no nuance to this. The facts are the facts. The fact is the coaches are liable for this young man's death. I'd love to hear an acceptable reason this happened.

And about the second part, if the wrestlers had gotten the guy medical help, which they should have, there is a good chance the guy doesn't die. This is just you putting your spin on the story. 

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4 minutes ago, CoachWrestling said:

There's no nuance to this. The facts are the facts. The fact is the coaches are liable for this young man's death. I'd love to hear an acceptable reason this happened.

And about the second part, if the wrestlers had gotten the guy medical help, which they should have, there is a good chance the guy doesn't die. This is just you putting your spin on the story. 

Or the restaurant manager, employees, other customers and/or folks at the drive thru, could have rendered or called for help.

 

 

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What a shame - obviously the coach is at fault up I think the adderall killed him.

 I took it briefly heart rate went through the roof , blood pressure also . I had trouble breathing and my chest hurt. Sitting down sometimes felt like I had a fever and was exercising hard.  I felt certain if I took that stuff for a long period I would have a heart attack  not saying it’s that bad for everyone - it always raises blood pressure and causes dehydration to a degree - but given what happened - I imagine he too had strong bad reactions to it. 
 

RIP

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On 6/4/2022 at 9:27 AM, MSU158 said:

Yikes. You HAVE to know the line between pushing hard and pushing too hard as a coach. Nearly every coach from High School up has “denied” water to their wrestlers at some point. However, this sure reads as over the top. 
 

The police report itself is rather damning. I would be very surprised if the 2 former coaches don’t lose the civil case. 

Those 2 coaches are lucky they didn't get charged with homicide. Recently we saw a nurse get charged and found guilty  of homicide when she gave a patient the wrong medication that led to their death. Those 2 coaches actions are way more egregious than that of the nurse to me.

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1 hour ago, CoachWrestling said:

There's no nuance to this. The facts are the facts. The fact is the coaches are liable for this young man's death. I'd love to hear an acceptable reason this happened.

And about the second part, if the wrestlers had gotten the guy medical help, which they should have, there is a good chance the guy doesn't die. This is just you putting your spin on the story. 

Guess you never told a kid that stopped drilling and asked to go get water no, because you were 5 minutes away from giving the whole team a water break?  Is this denying a kid water?  Should I be fired??  I have done this thousands of times at practice.  Who knows if this happened but again, we don't know the whole story nor likely will unless someone was actually in the room when this happens.  

And yes, the facts are the facts, and the people who write articles will word it, and de-emphasize certain aspects of the story, to tell what ever story they want you to hear to sell papers or get clicks.  

And you are the perfect example of what I am talking about...as for those wrestlers in CA, you are trying to hold the wrestlers accountable for the death caused by a drunk guy who hurt himself??  Seriously??  Like someone else posted, what about all the onlookers?  The person driving the other car?  The workers?  By the way, I want to say the wrestlers did call for help and the ambulance got there like 20 minutes later or something...but not 100% sure on that, nor does it matter.  Sounds to me the wrestlers acted about as responsible as you possibly could in that situation...as they truly could have beat the guy to death, but chose not to.

Sad that I have to even explain how the media works, to people I assume are grown ass adults...wow.

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1 minute ago, DocBZ said:

Those 2 coaches are lucky they didn't get charged with homicide. Recently we saw a nurse get charged and found guilty  of homicide when she gave a patient the wrong medication that led to their death. Those 2 coaches actions are way more egregious than that of the nurse to me.

I am telling you, MOST coaches hold back water at certain points of practices.  It is an endurance sport and many have the mind that you need to push yourself past that point. Now, that DOES NOT mean you do it for as long as they "allegedly" did for that type of situation.

Still, if they haven't charged them 2 years later, they simply DID NOT find any criminal reasoning to do so. Make no mistake, police were there and by the info the article provides, their report was rather thorough.  Speaking purely criminal charges,  a nurse has a legal responsibility when administering treatment/drugs.  Meanwhile, coaches can't forcibly/physically keep their wrestlers from water and they actually didn't.  Hell, at one point they told him to go back to the locker room and he did.  He easily could have taken as much water as he could at that point.

Once he came back and said he wanted to continue, I think that took any criminal aspect away.  Now, civil is a different story.  Mind you, we only have limited, essentially 1 sided info, so far.  But, by the info we have so far, it definitely looks like they abused their power and then didn't hold up their end as employees of the school to ensure the welfare of their student athlete.  

When it is all said and done, I think they lose civilly, but I just don't see any criminal coming from this, unless some new info comes to light and they basically admit to it...

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