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Mizzou - Connor Brown

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15 hours ago, lu1979 said:

I was not aware that Jacques had beat him out for the spot and quite frankly I am amazed at that.   It may have been a combination of O'Toole not adjusting well to the cut and familiarity.  I don't think many people look at Jacques as being in O'Toole's league (no offense to Jacques)

This was two years-ish ago, I believe...I don't think Jacques could beat Keegan now.  I also personally think 157 looks a lot lighter than 165 this upcoming year with 3 returning NCAA champs at 165 (Keegan, Griffith and Carr).

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4 minutes ago, The_MO_Godfather said:

This was two years-ish ago, I believe...I don't think Jacques could beat Keegan now.  I also personally think 157 looks a lot lighter than 165 this upcoming year with 3 returning NCAA champs at 165 (Keegan, Griffith and Carr).

I completely agree with this. And even 2 years ago, they were pretty close matches. 

Ultimately, I don't even think it's completely dependent on who beats who, the coaches know who they want in the lineup. Last year there were starters who were beat in the room - more than enough times to just be called a fluke, they remained starters. I would have to trust that they are looking at the big picture - which covers more than a season, for their decisions. 

Although I don't always like them. And sometimes wish they would coach from my seat, I know I see it clearly. ;)

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11 hours ago, mhlm said:

I completely agree with this. And even 2 years ago, they were pretty close matches. 

Ultimately, I don't even think it's completely dependent on who beats who, the coaches know who they want in the lineup. Last year there were starters who were beat in the room - more than enough times to just be called a fluke, they remained starters. I would have to trust that they are looking at the big picture - which covers more than a season, for their decisions. 

Although I don't always like them. And sometimes wish they would coach from my seat, I know I see it clearly. ;)

Are there any examples that you would be willing to share about guys who won in the room but weren't able to start?  

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Not last year, but time to time wrestlers have lost in wrestle offs or the Black/Gold and remained starters. Will Brooks beat Mike Chandler and Mike remained the starter and went on to AA. However it happened, I don’t remember all the details. 

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On 7/2/2022 at 12:15 PM, ionel said:

There are examples but maybe none of us are willing to share.

I believe Coach Smith has put more stock into how the wrestlers perform in tournaments and duals, which is more common today than it was in the past. 

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Not to mention Dom Bradley not only beat Mark Ellis in the room, iirc he also beat him in an early season open his Freshman year. Ellis went on to went Nationals that year. The following year, Ellis remained the starter for obvious reasons, but word was Bradley routinely won in the room. Ellis finished 6th that year. 
 

The Brooks/Chandler match is a great example of why using wrestle offs is stupid. 

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