MMA stars v. NCAA stars: spotlight on Olympic wrestling

[The_Education 24]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/could-ufc-dani ... er-matches

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/mma-sta ... -wrestling

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an Askren-Dake match, Hendricks-Taylor, or Ruth-Romero, or something else along those lines.

[tech_fall 3]

I would love to see this happen in folkstyle but imagine it would be free considering its to save olympic wrestling.

[tech_fall 3]

Would love to see Faber vs Steiber or Ramos or JO.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

Would love to see Faber vs Steiber or Ramos or JO.

 

You know, so would I. Urijah ended his career on a very sour note. As a junior he had a pretty good run at the NCAA's, losing out in the R12 match 4-1, with the score being 2-1 most of the match until Douglas hit a late counter takedown towards the end. As a senior he seemed poised for his first AA run with taking NCAA champion Johnny Thompson into overtime and defeating Illinois's Mark Jayne 13-12 in a wild match. Not sure what the deal was at the PAC-10's though as Faber was upset by Mike Simpson of Arizona State and then knocked out of the tournament via tech fall by Cal State Bakersfield's Matt Sanchez. It would be rather redeeming for Faber to secure a win over one of today's top 133'ers.

 

Same with Frankie Edgar, he lost out in the AA round to Casio Pero of Illinois, whom he had defeated earlier in the season 10-2.

 

I suppose to me it's sorta like a second chance or at least a chance to prove themselves. So many people hold strong to whether you were a good wrestler or whether you weren't based on post season accomplishments. For Faber to hang with/beat Steiber/Ramos/Graff and for Edgar to hang with/beat Maple/Port/Steiber would speak for itself on that matter.

[aro3eb 0]

Why do people think guys like Edgar and Faber would have a prayer against Steiber or Ramos? Why would they perform better than they did when concentrating fully on wrestling? Steiber v. Faber is a first period pin. Askren-Dake or Hendricks-Ruth would be fun though.

[PA-Fan 0]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/could-ufc-daniel-cormier-help-save-olympic-wrestling-with-crossover-matches

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/mma-sta ... -wrestling

 

I wouldn't mind seeing an Askren-Dake match, Hendricks-Taylor, or Ruth-Romero, or something else along those lines.

 

 

In folk I really don't think any of these matches would be won by the MMA guys. In free I am sort of leaning the same way as well...although Taylor and Ruth are more opened up and less dominant in free.

 

I think Dake v Askren would have the most potential to be close and entertaining especially in folk (sad we can't see that)...but I think Dake still wins this in either style.

 

Still - a fantastic idea for the sport in its current situation.

[tec87 349]

The only mma wrestlers that would even consider doing these matchups, would be guys that were elite of the elite in college or international wrestling. Edgar and Faber would get embarrassed so they would never take on these matches. Askren has shown that he is open to exhibition matches though. He wrestled Herbert at midlands a few years ago and still smoked him like he did in the ncaa finals. I think you are more likely to see guys like Askren, Hendricks, Cormier, Velasquez, people of that caliber taking on these matches. Of course Velasquez is the champ so the UFC probably wouldn't let him do a match for fear of injury risk. The same goes for Jon Jones as it does for Velasquez.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

Why do people think guys like Edgar and Faber would have a prayer against Steiber or Ramos? Why would they perform better than they did when concentrating fully on wrestling? Steiber v. Faber is a first period pin. Askren-Dake or Hendricks-Ruth would be fun though.

 

 

Guys like you would also think that based on collegiate results, Matt McDonough would murderize Obe Blanc. McDonough was a three time NCAA finalist, and Blanc placed once at 6th. According to your on paper analysis McDonough would kill Blanc. Blanc toyed around with him at the Olympic trials, smoked him.

 

Guys DO have the ability to get better, even though it goes against popular belief.

[PA-Fan 0]

Why do people think guys like Edgar and Faber would have a prayer against Steiber or Ramos? Why would they perform better than they did when concentrating fully on wrestling? Steiber v. Faber is a first period pin. Askren-Dake or Hendricks-Ruth would be fun though.

 

 

Guys like you would also think that based on collegiate results, Matt McDonough would murderize Obe Blanc. McDonough was a three time NCAA finalist, and Blanc placed once at 6th. According to your on paper analysis McDonough would kill Blanc. Blanc toyed around with him at the Olympic trials, smoked him.

 

Guys DO have the ability to get better, even though it goes against popular belief.

 

 

This is a terrible example. You are comparing a guy who is 100% dedicated to freestyle wrestling beating a guy who was much more accomplished in the NCAA...vs Guys who are 100% training to fight and not wrestle, wrestling guys who still are 100% focused on wrestling.

 

It is a completely ridiculous comparison in every way. And yes, as you say, "guys do have the ability to get better" - but to do that you need to train for it. Training for years to be a fighter will not make you a better wrestler than you were when you were actually a wrestler.

 

Blanc vs. McDonough in freestyle compared to Faber/Edgar vs. Steiber/Ramos is not even remotely the same thing.

[madcat11 404]

JT1 that was some serious apples to oranges.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

JT1 that was some serious apples to oranges.

Might as well throw in a little grapes there too huh? Bottom line, per opinion, less than a handful of guys would've picked Blanc over McDonough pre-match. You can take that to the bank.

[PA-Fan 0]

JT1 that was some serious apples to oranges.

Might as well throw in a little grapes there too huh? Bottom line, per opinion, less than a handful of guys would've picked Blanc over McDonough pre-match. You can take that to the bank.

 

Probably somewhat true...but people who understand freestyle surely wouldn't say that... but still it is a completely independent statement from the way you used it to down the point being made, that Faber/Edgar have no chance vs. Stieber/Ramos...they don't.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

JT1 that was some serious apples to oranges.

Might as well throw in a little grapes there too huh? Bottom line, per opinion, less than a handful of guys would've picked Blanc over McDonough pre-match. You can take that to the bank.

 

Probably somewhat true...but people who understand freestyle surely wouldn't say that... but still it is a completely independent statement from the way you used it to down the point being made, that Faber/Edgar have no chance vs. Stieber/Ramos...they don't.

 

Change up the rules a little bit. Make it two, two minute rounds where they start on their feet.

 

Allow Faber and Edgar time to get back into wrestling shape/wrestling mind.

 

I don't think they'd get "killed" like you think they would.

[PA-Fan 0]

 

Change up the rules a little bit. Make it two, two minute rounds where they start on their feet.

 

Allow Faber and Edgar time to get back into wrestling shape/wrestling mind.

 

I don't think they'd get "killed" like you think they would.

 

Seriously? "Change the rules a little bit". "Allow them to get back into wrestling shape/mind?"

 

If you have to add all of these caveats to support your statement...you must see that you were probably wrong to start with...

[bwh27 30]

Faber and Edgar would get killed by Stieber and Ramos. As long as JT1 is the only one arguing otherwise, let's just move on, it's not a worthwhile discussion. Maybe we should change the rules to allow Faber/Edgar one punch per minute?

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

 

Change up the rules a little bit. Make it two, two minute rounds where they start on their feet.

 

Allow Faber and Edgar time to get back into wrestling shape/wrestling mind.

 

I don't think they'd get "killed" like you think they would.

 

Seriously? "Change the rules a little bit". "Allow them to get back into wrestling shape/mind?"

 

If you have to add all of these caveats to support your statement...you must see that you were probably wrong to start with...

 

These guys aren't Gods, they're human beings. You put them on a pedestal and act like they're invincible. They aren't. Schlatter was put on a pedestal and then along came Metcalf. Metcalf was put on a pedestal and along came Caldwell....so on and so forth, it repeats itself again and again and again.

 

Yes, I realize, different example but in theory it is all the same. Steiber isn't untouchable, nor is he invincible. He may after all kill Faber on the mat, he may. That doesn't mean he will, and it certainly doesn't mean that he will with no uncertainty.

 

In this sport we grant too much or too little, example defined.

[PA-Fan 0]

 

Change up the rules a little bit. Make it two, two minute rounds where they start on their feet.

 

Allow Faber and Edgar time to get back into wrestling shape/wrestling mind.

 

I don't think they'd get "killed" like you think they would.

 

Seriously? "Change the rules a little bit". "Allow them to get back into wrestling shape/mind?"

 

If you have to add all of these caveats to support your statement...you must see that you were probably wrong to start with...

 

These guys aren't Gods, they're human beings. You put them on a pedestal and act like they're invincible. They aren't. Schlatter was put on a pedestal and then along came Metcalf. Metcalf was put on a pedestal and along came Caldwell....so on and so forth, it repeats itself again and again and again.

 

Yes, I realize, different example but in theory it is all the same. Steiber isn't untouchable, nor is he invincible. He may after all kill Faber on the mat, he may. That doesn't mean he will, and it certainly doesn't mean that he will with no uncertainty.

 

In this sport we grant too much or too little, example defined.

 

I can't believe you just did that again in this same thread. It's not just a "different example, but the same theory" situation...it is almost not even apples and oranges...it is more like apples and wrenches!

 

Im not even sure what you are trying to argue anymore...wreslters at the top of the NCAA are not going to lose to wrestlers who haven't trained to wrestle in years - especially if when they were wrestlers they weren't all that great (Faber for example). You are making a nonsensical argument...that is only overshadowed by the examples you are attempting to use to support it. Come on man.

[PA-Fan 0]

Maybe we should change the rules to allow Faber/Edgar one punch per minute?

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

Allah, Zues, Yahweh, Buddha and Steiber. Yeah, I get it.

[wrestlingnerd 2,593]

JT1, Faber was a good, not great, wrestler. He would get his ass handed to him three or four different ways by a guy like Ramos, let alone Logan Stieber, who would tech him. And I love rooting for Faber in MMA; he is one of my favorites to watch.

 

Faber has several former wrestlers of varying skill in his camp, Alpha Male. He is barely middle of the pack against those guys (Faber openly admits this), all of whom would also get smoked by Stieber. Chad Mendes, an AA and NCAA runner-up, who takes Faber down at will in practice during their training sessions, might be an interesting opponent for the current crop of top 133 lbers, but Faber is not hanging with them.

 

The former wrestler from the Alpha Male camp who would make most sense as a credible opponent against today's top guys around his weight would be Lance Palmer (vs. JO, I presume).

[PA-Fan 0]

Allah, Zues, Yahweh, Buddha and Steiber. Yeah, I get it.

 

It's now become quite obvious that you don't get it...

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

Allah, Zues, Yahweh, Buddha and Steiber. Yeah, I get it.

 

It's now become quite obvious that you don't get it...

 

You're the one that doesn't get it. I get it just fine. Faber hasn't been sitting on his keester doing nothing, he trains extensively hard. It's not like he's out of shape completely. He may not be in wrestling shape, but it isn't impossible to get back into wrestling shape from the current shape he is in. I don't mind you saying that Steiber would beat him, that's fine. "Kill him" though? Seriously? Pin? Get real.

[PA-Fan 0]

Allah, Zues, Yahweh, Buddha and Steiber. Yeah, I get it.

 

It's now become quite obvious that you don't get it...

 

You're the one that doesn't get it. I get it just fine. Faber hasn't been sitting on his keester doing nothing, he trains extensively hard. It's not like he's out of shape completely. He may not be in wrestling shape, but it isn't impossible to get back into wrestling shape from the current shape he is in. I don't mind you saying that Steiber would beat him, that's fine. "Kill him" though? Seriously? Pin? Get real.

 

Yes, he does. He trains extremely hard - to be a fighter. Stieber trains extremely hard also - to be a wrestler. It is just as ridiculous to say that Faber could hang with (let alone have a chance to beat) Stieber in a wrestling match as it is to say Stieber would beat Faber in an MMA fight.

 

It actually is probably more ridiculous...because Stieber's wrestling has a chance (albeit a very very slim one) to slow down Faber's punching in a fight...whereas Faber's punching has 0 chance (being that it isn't allowed) to stop Stieber's wrestling in a wrestling match.

 

Edit...maybe taking this example out of wrestling will illustrate how silly the argument you are making is:

 

Christiano Ronaldo trains extremely hard also...Does that mean he could compete Kobe Bryant in a basketball game? (Allowing time to get in "basketball shape/mindset" obviously....)How about Kobe competing with Ronaldo in a soccer match?

 

Im using these outrageous examples to very clearly illustrate the point...that the answer is no...the same as the answer in the Faber vs. Stieber wrestling match.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

PA-Fan

 

I'd certainly hope so, you don't punch in wrestling. Steiber isn't/wasn't (may one day be though) an MMA fighter. Faber WAS a wrestler, and furthermore incorporates a lot of wrestling into his techniques. He has a mean low single to a trip that he uses in his fights. I don't even watch MMA or for that matter care for MMA, and I know that. Is that low single he uses somehow different in the octagon than it is on a wrestling mat? No, it isn't. It's still a low single and Heaven forbid I believe that he could maybe hit it on Steiber.

 

I want this match to happen now. I'll admit I'm wrong is Steiber goes out and manhandles Faber by pin or tech-fall. Matter of fact, even by major. I'll also hound you like a dog to admit your wrong if Faber keeps it closer and I won't stop till you do admit your wrong if Faber wins.

 

Edit - I don't pay attention to basketball.

[madcat11 404]

I don't mind you saying that Steiber would beat him, that's fine. "Kill him" though? Seriously? Pin? Get real.

 

Why would this be a surprise? If you can't make the podium you likely can't go 7 minutes with either Stieber or even Ramos. Nothing earth shattering there.