I miss Iowa's arrogance

[headshuck 2,587]

It was much more...well... hard to explain.

[CTMopar 17]

The "Big Red" as well!!!

 

P.S. The land of corn and potatoes...Sorry I mean "Hotdogs"!!!

[VakAttack 3,988]

It was much more...well... hard to explain.

 

Why was it hard to explain?

[Guest Hammerlock3]

interesting?

[jammen 336]

All it will take is another double class.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

Even though this may have been posted as nothing more than a shot at Iowa or an attempt to rile up a few Iowa fans, I do think that it is an interesting topic. I think it is worth discussing.

 

I don't know much about the arrogance or lack of arrogance that the teams from the 1970's and 1980's had. I wasn't around to watch them. I didn't attend my first Hawkeye wrestling meet until 1992, and even then I didn't really start to pay attention to the program and follow it until the late 90's.

 

Are teams really that much different than they were 20 year's ago???

 

Remember back to teams of the late 90's, I'd say only a handful of guys would even seemingly fit the description of arrogant. Matter of fact the only guy I can remember from the late 90's who truly was hotheaded, arrogant, cocky and full of himself was Doug Schwab. As far as "Iowa's arrogance" is concerned he fit the bill. I suppose that in some people's minds Mark Ironside, Jeff McGuinness and Joe Williams would be among the arrogant too. Ironside to me was just a no nonsense, refuse to lose, 2nd place sucks kind of guy. He didn't have time for anything but the very best, and while I personally don't, I can see why others would consider that to be arrogant. Williams just isn't a real personable guy. He keeps to himself and sometimes people mistake those who aren't overly friendly as arrogant. There is a very thin line between confidence and arrogance, and some define that line differently than others. As far as I'm concerned McGuinness was just extremely confident.

 

I never saw enough of Gillis, Whitmer or McMahan to really have much of an opinion about them. The little I saw of them, they never struck me as arrogant.

 

Fullhart never said anything, and I suppose some might take his keep to himself, very quiet personality as arrogant, but Lee Fullhart wasn't arrogant.

 

Jenn seemed very out of place as a Hawkeye. He always seemed to have a smile on his face, and a rather humorous, don't take life so seriously attitude.

 

Ersland is probably the friendliest and nicest guy to ever wrestle for Iowa. I wish that all athletes could have the positive attitude and perspective that he did. Some argue that the lack of a mean streak, is why he didn't accomplish more during his career. That may be so. I remember a guy that went into the NCAA's as a senior and damn near knocked off the #1 seed in the R12 match.

 

Maybe today there aren't as many Schwabs on the team as there were back in the day and I suppose the Jenns and the Erslands that once seemed so alien to the program are more accepted than they once were.

 

 

I remember speaking with Gable once on the matter of arrogance and he said to me that while he does not need it himself, and doesn't necessarily like it, he understands that some need it in order to achieve their goals and be successful. I'd like it if every athlete in the world could be like Gable. Be able to not have to say anything and do all of their talking out on the mat. Not all can be like that though, and some need that little extra incentive to achieve their goals. While I am not a huge fan of arrogance, and will speak out against it when I think it has gone overboard, I respect and understand that.

[headshuck 2,587]

That's an interesting read and topic Johnny, but I was referring more to fans than wrestlers.

 

I miss Iowa fans talking up their entire lineup and approach to winning at all costs. Too much superstar adulation on both College and International boards for my taste lately.

 

But like I said, I can't quite explain it but its not the same around here since Iowa lost the lead.

[Plasmodium 2,223]

Physical and mental beatings are easy to recover from. Spiritual beatings -- Those take awhile.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

That's an interesting read and topic Johnny, but I was referring more to fans than wrestlers.

 

I miss Iowa fans talking up their entire lineup and approach to winning at all costs. Too much superstar adulation on both College and International boards for my taste lately.

 

But like I said, I can't quite explain it but its not the same around here since Iowa lost the lead.

 

Oh, ha ha, I see what you mean now. Things may be a bit different around here as of late, but take it from me, the arrogance among Iowa fans in general hasn't gone anywhere. Iowa City in itself is a pretty arrogant town. I lived there for four years and while I liked the people of Iowa City and found most of them to be friendly, they are none to shy of making you aware that they are just a little bit better than you simply because they're a native of Iowa City and you aren't.

 

Most fans aren't that way, I don't think, it's just the few that are that really stick out. Most Iowa fans that I've been around are actually very cool people. Some though, I can't stand. I'm a wrestling fan first, and a Hawkeye fan second and some just can't accept that. They think that rooting for anyone not wearing black and gold is unacceptable. I've also been known to not necessarily root against, but definitely not root for one or two Hawkeyes over the years and that has gotten me some scrutiny from other fans. I guess I care about the content of character and who a person is as much as I do their ability to win wrestling matches. If some people have a problem with that, tough.

 

I certainly won't defend the handful of Iowa fans who make the rest of us look bad with their arrogant, full of themselves attitude, but I will say that they are the minority. The majority of Iowa fans are just good ole people who love their wrestling. Simple as that.

[tirapell 34]

The majority of Iowa fans are just good ole people who love their wrestling. Simple as that.

 

Very true. Iowa being good is good for wrestling.

[Ace 2]

Iowa fans are still arrogant; it's just that their team isn't as good.

[Dr_Gonzo 1]

I know I personally have felt just as arrogant the last three years as I did the three years Iowa won with Brands. I can promise at least Headshuck my arrogance isn't going anywhere. You can count on me brah!!!

[HuskyHero133 52]

Iowa is like the NY Yankees or the NE Patriots, its fun for people to bag on them because they were dynasties.

 

It's no fun to kick a dog when he's down... At least not for most people lol.

[Alwayswrestling 227]

I found Schwab far from arrogant full of confidence but not arrogant.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

I found Schwab far from arrogant full of confidence but not arrogant.

 

That's how I've always seen McGuinness and I just got a personal message from someone telling me that they thought he was extremely arrogant. I never took Jeff that way, to me he was just confident. Schwab though, from my eyes, was.

[Wire 23]

All it will take is another double class.

 

And we have a Winner !! :lol:

[wrestlingphish 1,018]

All it will take is another double class.

 

And we have a Winner !! :lol:

 

I know I still can't believe that the NCAA let Iowa have 19.8 scholarships those years.

[BigBrog 43]

I can not stand the Brands.....but you have to love Iowa wrestling and how important the state and their fans are to the sport...yes some are ignorant a-holes, but every team has those fans....see Penn St., Cornell, etc. Man in their hayday, Iowa was so much fun to watch. Even now I love watching them cause I want to see Brands get beat. :)

[donnie 0]

A topic near and dear to my heart. I do not believe Iowa's wrestlers have been any more or less arrogant than anyone else's. My beef has been with a relatively small percentage of fans who are so arrogant is sickens me. I was a Hawk fan in years past but was beyond disgusted at Carver when Iowa demolished Okie State and more Iowa fans than I would have ever imagined were unbelievably cruel and vulgar towards Cowboy fans. In Zalesky's last few years, some Iowa fans turned on him in a dispicable fashion, including starting some rumors about him that were false and terrible. When Brands used his combined classes to win 3 straight NCAA Titles and had 2 top rated recruiting classes, some Hawk fans that I have known for decades were POSITIVE that there was going to be another big string of titles. I was on record saying I did not believe so at all, told some of these fans, and boy, did the fur fly.

[jstock 125]

Fans are fans, you can find and make examples of bad fans of all teams. The target is just not as big on Iowa. Now Cael and PSU carry the bulls eye. I doubt the Iowa fans have changed all that much since they stopped winning consecutive NCAA titles. I went to NCAA's one time and stayed in a hotel with many many Iowa fans and they were fine.

I didn't care for Brands when he first took over but I find myself liking the guy now. I blame the officials for not standing up and keeping him and his staff seated on the bench or corner. The officials really need to grow a pair and sit those guys down.

[Wire 23]

For a lot of us, it wasn't till the Internet and Forums that we got a taste of the Iowa Fans. There was not that much "up and close" exposure to the Iowa teams prior (if you lived far away) to the Net, and the improved exposure that has occurred over the last 5-10 years. From my perspective, it was about the time Coach Z. got canned and Brand's showed up, that I was able to follow the Mid West/East coast teams due to the net, and improved TV coverage. The VTech guys, and Tom made a big splash, and the media picked it up, and away we went! Also, I like Coach Z. and still to this day think he got the "shaft" .. Yet he has been welcomed to the PNW, and has done a good job at OSU.

[sockobuw 49]

All it will take is another double class.

 

And we have a Winner !! :lol:

 

I know I still can't believe that the NCAA let Iowa have 19.8 scholarships those years.

 

if you don't think there were guys at iowa on way less money than they would have been under different circumstances, you are crazy. they chose to follow or stay for less money than they would have accepted coming out of hs.

[JohnnyThompsonnum1 101]

I like Coach Z. and still to this day think he got the "shaft" .

You know I like him too AND I like Coach Brands. It seems like their is this unwritten rule that you either have to like one or the other. You're pro one, you gotta be anti the other. What a bunch of social stigma b.s. Coach Zalesky is a good coach and a good man. He wasn't what Iowa wanted, and I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with how his letting go was handled. It was handled unprofessionally and I can only hope those involved look back on the situation wishing that they had went about things differently. If someone has a problem with me saying that, good, have a problem. I don't care.

 

Same on the other end of the stick, if Zalesky supporters have a problem with the fact that I'm also a fan of Coach Brands and think a lot of him as a coach/person too, then tough. I don't care that way either.

 

 

I have both Oregon State Wrestling apparel and Iowa apparel, and I've been known more than once to wear a Hawkeye wrestling baseball hat with a Beaver Wrestling T-shirt on the same day.

[SetonHallPirate 988]

I don't think it's arrogance, as much as it is the bandwagon fans that go along with winning. Take Penn State, for example...their fans that show up at Rec Hall are among the best the sport has, yet their message board posters are some of the worst we have to offer. While I never made it to Carver in the three-peat run, I'd imagine that the situation at Iowa during that run wasn't all that much different.

 

Just to echo Johnny's point, my dealings with both Brands and Zalesky have always been positive, although I've certainly dealt with Brands (who is one of my favorite coaches in the sport, and nearly always the first person to respond to any of my blast e-mails that request a response) more than Zalesky.

[CTMopar 17]

SHP "WE" know where your loyalty lies...Didn't those same Iowa fans run you out of the place...Give us a Media Dual Fan breakdown so we can improve...Happy 4th :) :) :)

 

I don't think it's arrogance, as much as it is the bandwagon fans that go along with winning. Take Penn State, for example...their fans that show up at Rec Hall are among the best the sport has, yet their message board posters are some of the worst we have to offer. While I never made it to Carver in the three-peat run, I'd imagine that the situation at Iowa during that run wasn't all that much different.

 

Just to echo Johnny's point, my dealings with both Brands and Zalesky have always been positive, although I've certainly dealt with Brands (who is one of my favorite coaches in the sport, and nearly always the first person to respond to any of my blast e-mails that request a response) more than Zalesky.