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rodneydeeeee

Marstellar to PSU

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Marsteller is a stud, and everyone agrees on that. There's really no use in splitting hairs, trying to define how much of a stud he is.

 

If Marsteller wants to be a stud in college, he will have to improve and grow as a wrestler. That will require being coachable and buying into PSU's program. And if he wants to make a world team and compete with the world's elite, he'll have to get even beyond the level it takes to be an NCAA champ. If being on a world team is Marsteller's goal, then he has a long road ahead, and I'm rooting for him to reach his potential, whatever that is.

 

 

Chance has already been on a world team. He was at Cadet Worlds last summer where he beat two guys fairly convincingly before getting injured.

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He's a super talent, no doubt. I've seen him since he was pretty young, and he always impresses. HOWEVER, and I believe Tirapelle touched on this in another thread, he was ridiculously physically mature at a young age. He had an enormous physical advantage early on that will continue to even out over time.

The world is full of athletes that were youth phenoms due in part to being physically mature ahead of their peers.

It'll be interesting to see him taking on other guys as developed.

 

Wasn't sort of the opposite argument made of David Taylor coming into PSU? "He is too small - not strong enough - not physical enough." Interesting is all.

 

Chance was physically mature at a young age - fine no argument. But he still came into HS at 152 lbs as a freshman, and won a state title. Followed by two more, and most likely a 4th this year. It's not as if he was wrestling a bunch of little boys...he has been wrestling (and destroying) the best of the best, in the best wrestling state (not to mention national freestyle and greco titles, as well as Cadet World level competition and success until he was injured). I think saying "it'll be interesting to see him taking on other guys as developed." is pretty unfair.

 

Whether he will continue on that level in D1 remains to be seen...but I do not foresee his physicality and wrestling ability "evening out" being any sort of problem.

 

I'm not making any argument, so I'm not sure what you're getting at, or why you're sensitive to any possible caveat regarding the kid's success. Regardless of weight class, most high school kids aren't walking around with a full beard as a senior, let alone as a freshman. He's been physically mature from day one in HS, and that's an advantage. We'll see how it goes at the D1 level, that's all I'm saying. The Pa guys act like any critique or caveat regarding anyone associated with PA is a personal attack on the whole state. Sheesh.

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I think his weight class is a legitimate point. If he was a 103 or 112 lber. who matured early and was beating other freshman or sophs, not so impressive. But at 152 he is wrestling upper classmen and dominating as a freshmen. I do remember him beating Keith Surber at the Disney Duals as a just graduated 8th grader and then the next season Surber beat Ed Cooper for the Illinois state title. He is great right now, only time will tell if he stays great or can even improve from where he is now. There are a ton of guys who have talent and will work their butts off in college rooms. Nothing is a given.

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Nobody is saying Chance is terrible. It's a strawman. We are saying that it is unfair to compare him to Cary Kolat. He just doesn't have the world level or out-of-age results. It's unfair to Chance and a disservice to what Cary accomplished. Chance is great, but not that level, at least as a high schooler.

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The fact remains that no one has ever been as dominant in PA AAA as Marsteller. This forum is obsessed with quantifying everything in the wake of Dake's accomplishments. Just chill out. Unless something weird happens, Marsteller will be the first ever undefeated 4x AAA champion. That's pretty amazing. I think the only other 4x AAA champion ever was Jeremy Hunter, although he lost in his freshman year.

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^^Actually Mike Johnson (Lock Haven High School) was undefeated 4X PIAA champ (1958, 59, 60, 61) and was never taken down his entire high school career. Back then, as you all know, PIAA's only had one state tournament, which included both large and small schools competing together.

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^^Actually Mike Johnson (Lock Haven High School) was undefeated 4X PIAA champ (1958, 59, 60, 61) and was never taken down his entire high school career. Back then, as you all know, PIAA's only had one state tournament, which included both large and small schools competing together.

 

 

..that's right!

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^^Actually Mike Johnson (Lock Haven High School) was undefeated 4X PIAA champ (1958, 59, 60, 61) and was never taken down his entire high school career. Back then, as you all know, PIAA's only had one state tournament, which included both large and small schools competing together.

 

 

Thats amazing but I think he said in AAA not AA.

 

Was there no AAA back then, is that what you mean?

 

If so then that is just mind boggling...

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My father in law was a state champ in the 60's and the year he won, I think he wrestled a total of 12? matches.

 

Im pretty sure Chance wrestled in the nittany lion open as an 8th grader and pinned a penn state wrestler in the tournament. I believe he got hurt and bowed out, and I'm not sure of his other matches, but pinning a college wrestler when you are in junior high is almost unbelievable.

 

as far as his comparison to kolat, who else could you possibly compare him to? there has only ever been one undefeated 4 timer in pa state history, Kolat. If Chance were to replicate that accomplishment, how could you not compare the two?

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Before we blow this out of proportion, according to the brackets Chance beat PSU back up Tom Reynolds 6-3 according the brackets. Reynolds' record on the year was 3-6. He then lost to Alec Fraser of UNC-Greensboro by pin and lost in the first round of consolations to Cullen Isenberg of Rutgers by a score of 6-2. I've never heard of either of those guys, and they were both unattached in the tournament. So while it's impressive that he wrestled and that he won a match, it's laughable to talk about it in the same breath as what Kolat did.

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My father in law was a state champ in the 60's and the year he won, I think he wrestled a total of 12? matches.

 

Im pretty sure Chance wrestled in the nittany lion open as an 8th grader and pinned a penn state wrestler in the tournament. I believe he got hurt and bowed out, and I'm not sure of his other matches, but pinning a college wrestler when you are in junior high is almost unbelievable.

 

as far as his comparison to kolat, who else could you possibly compare him to? there has only ever been one undefeated 4 timer in pa state history, Kolat. If Chance were to replicate that accomplishment, how could you not compare the two?

 

 

..how about Mike Johnson?

 

..he's already the only 4 time, undefeated, one class champ.

 

..he's the gold standard, not Kolat.

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My father in law was a state champ in the 60's and the year he won, I think he wrestled a total of 12? matches.

 

Im pretty sure Chance wrestled in the nittany lion open as an 8th grader and pinned a penn state wrestler in the tournament. I believe he got hurt and bowed out, and I'm not sure of his other matches, but pinning a college wrestler when you are in junior high is almost unbelievable.

 

as far as his comparison to kolat, who else could you possibly compare him to? there has only ever been one undefeated 4 timer in pa state history, Kolat. If Chance were to replicate that accomplishment, how could you not compare the two?

 

 

..how about Mike Johnson?

 

..he's already the only 4 time, undefeated, one class champ.

 

..he's the gold standard, not Kolat.

 

...Kolat is the gold standard.

 

Johnson did everything you said, but not with nearly the same credentials as what Kolat did.

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Vak, it's not "laughable". You always like to put a dig in to any non-Iowa wrestler. The kid is a freak and we'll see how he handles college-folkstyle wrestling.

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..one class brother. ONE CLASS!

 

Amazing.

 

Never been taken down!?!

 

Did he wrestle in college? I can't find it on Google...

He took 2nd at NCAAs for Pittsburgh in 1963 @ 123 lbs:

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/pdf/ ... 201963.pdf

 

In 1964, he won EIWAs but went 0-2 at NCAAs.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pit ... istory.pdf

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Vak, it's not "laughable". You always like to put a dig in to any non-Iowa wrestler. The kid is a freak and we'll see how he handles college-folkstyle wrestling.

 

So by saying that it's laughable to compare a guy (future Penn State wrestler) going 1-2 against nobody of any real collegiate accomplishment to another guy (former Penn State/Lock Haven wrestler) taking third in the Midlands as a sophomore, I am somehow defending Iowa. Classic. It's not taking a shot at someone to say that they aren't as good a high school wrestler as Cary Kolat. Sorry this seems to be hard to comprehend for you.

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My father in law was a state champ in the 60's and the year he won, I think he wrestled a total of 12? matches.

 

Im pretty sure Chance wrestled in the nittany lion open as an 8th grader and pinned a penn state wrestler in the tournament. I believe he got hurt and bowed out, and I'm not sure of his other matches, but pinning a college wrestler when you are in junior high is almost unbelievable.

 

as far as his comparison to kolat, who else could you possibly compare him to? there has only ever been one undefeated 4 timer in pa state history, Kolat. If Chance were to replicate that accomplishment, how could you not compare the two?

 

 

..how about Mike Johnson?

 

..he's already the only 4 time, undefeated, one class champ.

 

..he's the gold standard, not Kolat.

 

...Kolat is the gold standard.

 

Johnson did everything you said, but not with nearly the same credentials as what Kolat did.

 

 

Mike Johnson was not the only 4 time, undefeated, one class PA champ. Jerry Maurey did it for Clearfield HS from 1947-1950 (67-0-0) and Jim Conklin did it for Waynesburg from 1940-43 (70-0-1)

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Vak, it's not "laughable". You always like to put a dig in to any non-Iowa wrestler. The kid is a freak and we'll see how he handles college-folkstyle wrestling.

 

So by saying that it's laughable to compare a guy (future Penn State wrestler) going 1-2 against nobody of any real collegiate accomplishment to another guy (former Penn State/Lock Haven wrestler) taking third in the Midlands as a sophomore, I am somehow defending Iowa. Classic. It's not taking a shot at someone to say that they aren't as good a high school wrestler as Cary Kolat. Sorry this seems to be hard to comprehend for you.

 

 

You do realize that most 7th graders aren't in HS for a couple of years yet?

I would guess that the HS Cary Kolat was better than the MS Cary Kolat also.

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Vak, it's not "laughable". You always like to put a dig in to any non-Iowa wrestler. The kid is a freak and we'll see how he handles college-folkstyle wrestling.

 

So by saying that it's laughable to compare a guy (future Penn State wrestler) going 1-2 against nobody of any real collegiate accomplishment to another guy (former Penn State/Lock Haven wrestler) taking third in the Midlands as a sophomore, I am somehow defending Iowa. Classic. It's not taking a shot at someone to say that they aren't as good a high school wrestler as Cary Kolat. Sorry this seems to be hard to comprehend for you.

 

 

You do realize that most 7th graders aren't in HS for a couple of years yet?

I would guess that the HS Cary Kolat was better than the MS Cary Kolat also.

 

The age difference still doesn't make 1-2 in an Open tournament with a bunch of back ups the same as 3rd at the Midlands back when the Midlands was possibly tougher than the NCAA tournament.

 

But for the sake of argument, at age 16, Kolat won the Cadet World Championships. Marstellar, at age 17, took 5th. They're not comparable. Again, it's not an insult to say someone isn't as good in high school as Cary Kolat. He's the greatest high school wrestler ever. Marstellar is fantastic, but he's not as good as Kolat, and there is nothing in his resume that says he is, other than the desire of current fans to always declare the "newest" thing as the "best" thing.

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But for the sake of argument, at age 16, Kolat won the Cadet World Championships. Marstellar, at age 17, took 5th. They're not comparable. Again, it's not an insult to say someone isn't as good in high school as Cary Kolat. He's the greatest high school wrestler ever. Marstellar is fantastic, but he's not as good as Kolat, and there is nothing in his resume that says he is, other than the desire of current fans to always declare the "newest" thing as the "best" thing.

Only disagreement is with characterizing Kolat, singularly, as the greatest HS wrestler ever. Jimmy Carr 1972 (FS Olympian) and Dave Schultz (silver in Tiblisi [top US placer that year] and US open champ) have HS credentials that aren't overshadowed by anyone.

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