University worlds

[wrestle09 0]

How has the USA faired in this competition in the past? Sounds like we have a strong team but I also heard the Russians are sending their National champs to the competition. I though they had to be enrolled in college??? :roll: :roll:

[Teaguemoore 0]

2000

8 weights

4 champs

Teague Moore 119

Byron Tucker 163.5

Cael Sanderson 185?

Chad Lamar 211

Bronze

Stephen Abas 128

138?

152?

Hwt?

[OKnowwhut 59]

2000

8 weights

4 champs

Teague Moore 119

Byron Tucker 163.5

Cael Sanderson 185?

Chad Lamar 211

Bronze

Stephen Abas 128

138?

152?

Hwt?

 

FREESTYLE WRESTLING CHAMPIONSHIPS at Tokyo, Japan, November 5, 2000

U.S. Freestyle Team results - Day three

 

54 kg/119 lbs. - Teague Moore, Pittsburgh, Pa. (Sunkist Kids) - Semifinals - dec. Zaoudin Bajev (Russia), 4-2, ot, 6:44; Gold medal match - dec. Ramazan Demir (Turkey), 9-2

 

58 kg/127.75 lbs. - Stephen Abas, Fresno, Calif. (Sunkist Kids) - Bronze medal match - lost dec. to Luvsandamba Enkbayar (Mongolia), 3-1

 

63 kg/138.75 lbs. - Eric Larkin, Tempe, Ariz. (Sunkist Kids) - Semifinals - lost dec. to Leonid Spiridonov (Russia), 9-3; Bronze medal match - lost dec. to Memhet Yozgat (Turkey), 4-2

 

69 kg/152 lbs. - Casey Cunningham,, U.S- Repechage - Casey Cunningham, , U.S. def. Jung Dae-Ie, Korea by tech. sup. 11-0, 4:55 - lost dec. to Iskhak Boziev, (Russia). 3-1

Semifinal pairings for Sunday, Nov. 5 - Baraati Mehdi, Iran vs Kudo Yuji, Japan Gulhan Ahmet, Turkey vs Boziev Iskhak, Russia

 

76 kg/167.5 lbs. - Byron Tucker, Norman, Okla. (Sunkist Kids) - Semifinals - dec. Falih Koyuncu (Turkey), 6-0; Gold medal match - dec, Aznaour Adjiev (Russia), 5-4

 

85 kg/187.25 lbs. - Cael Sanderson, Ames, Iowa (Sunkist Kids) - Semifinals - pin Tamas Kiss (Hungary), 2:29; Gold medal match - dec. Majid Khodaee (Iran), 4-2

 

97 kg/213.75 lbs. - Chad Lamer, Iowa City, Iowa (Hawkeye) - Semifinals - pin Kang Dong-Kuk (Korea), 4:18; Gold medal finals - won by tech. fall over Shahrokh Sadaghatizadeh (Iran), 11-1, 2:05

 

130 kg/286 lbs. (No pool, 5 wrestler round-robin)

After three rounds:

1. GUCLU Zekeriya, Turkey -- 3 wins, 0 losses, 11 classification points

2. TAYEBIVAKA JOZI Bahman, Iran -- 2-1, 8 cp

3. BEAUPARLANT Justin David, Canada -- 1-1, 3 cp

4. KANG Jin-Kyu, Korea -- 0-2, 2 cp

5. FUSHIHIRA Manabu, Japan -- 0-2, 0 cp

 

U.S. Coaches - Freestyle Developmental Coach Mike Duroe, Colorado Springs, Colo. and Freestyle Resident Coach Kevin Jackson, Colorado Springs, Colo.

[Teaguemoore 0]

Casey and Larkin, my apology.

[LtWtLooker 0]

So happy to see more and more writers catching on to trollster

[Glane18 73]

Very cool to see the previous results. Cael is the man (and so are all the other guys).

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but University Worlds is not college aged. The United States only uses guys in college, but the rest of the world uses guys something like 27 and younger. This will be great for our team to get tested here. I have high hoped.

 

Is there going to be a stream? D. Taylor has had a few cool tweets about the trip so far.

[StanDziedzic 1]

Historically, I don't believe the USA has entered wrestlers who still have college eligibility. And I don't believe the World Univ. Games (WUG) Committee intended the event to be what we consider "college-age." But that's not clear since the NCAA has not had uniform age limits either. As we know, many NCAA Champions who entered college after a military career are much older. Greg Ruth was 2nd in the World Championships while in the military before he was NCAA champion @ OU, I believe?

Correct me if I'm wrong; but in many cases the USA's WUG Champions have been wrestler who no longer had college eligibility remaining at the time they won. In many cases they are part-time students and bump up the load to meet the WUG's eligibility requirements--dropping back to part-time after the competition. After winning, some even conveniently drop the University from their accomplishments. Take Wade Schalles as an example. Wade won the World University Games in '77 [last NCAA in '73??]. Today on his website he claims to be a "World Champion Wrestler." Yet Wade never made a US World or Olympic Team :?:

[c149c 0]

Ouch Stan, he still won a world title :) better than most. I am not sure what your beef is with Wade but he really was a world champ, all be it a university world champ.....

[StanDziedzic 1]

c149c wrote:

"Ouch Stan, he still won a world title better than most."

 

You're correct! No beef, just a check on Wade's veracity and credibility--something he should expect when he purports in an open forum to be an expert critic on topics--especially when he has little experience w/ the topic.

 

Wade won the Tbilisi tournament [quite a feat]; was one of the most creative USA wrestlers of all time [as demonstrated by his NCAA pin record] and was indeed a World Univ. Champion; which as you mention is "better than most." I am glad to have had Wade as a competitor. No one demanded his opponents be prepared more than Wade, for that I'll be forever grateful.

 

But to categorize a WUG title as a "World Champion Wrestler" is more than a bit disingenuous in my estimation. Since I was the 1st 3x NCAA CD ['70, '71 & '72] champion and a NCAA Univ champ ['71] should I categorize myself as the 1st 4x NCAA Champ? Of course not, that would be silly and certainly disingenuous.

 

Winning a World Univ Games title does not make one "World Champion Wrestler" or an expert in the field of intrn'l wrestling. Since Wade never wrestled on a US World or Olympic team; and I do not remember ever seeing him @ a World Champ or Olympic Games, save maybe Atlanta in either '95 or '96 [i've either competed, coached or witnessed as a fan all [Freestyle] except-'75 and '97--if my memory is correct]; where does Wade derive such insights regarding the functioning of USAW's intern'l wrestling efforts??? Reasonable question, don't you think?

[BobDole 1,193]

It can't get any better than the good ole "if you aren't a world champion, you don't know jack about international wrestling" bit. Nothing like wrestling killing itself from the inside.

[olddirty 345]

Do you need to be a world champion to tell someone what it takes to be a world champion? Yes

 

Do you need to be a world champion to see faulty logic, direction, and business procedures within a wrestling organization? No

 

Even someone who wasnt a world medalist can see flaws or areas of improvement within wrestling topics.

[StanDziedzic 1]

It can't get any better than the good ole "if you aren't a world champion, you don't know jack about international wrestling" bit. Nothing like wrestling killing itself from the inside.

 

 

It's not about knowledge of intern'l wrestling, logic, direction or business acumen; it's about the veracity of someone who claims to be a "World Wrestling Champion" when he isn't.

The leaders of USAW are not World or Olympic Champions and only 6 of the 18 elected FILA Bureau members are World or Olympic Champions. The newly elected FILA President was not a wrestler; but none claim to be a "World Champion Wrestler." :?:

[Plasmodium 2,224]

olddirty,

My assumption is that many, if not most, coaches of world champions are not world champions themselves. Aren't they telling their athletes how to be a world champion?

[StanDziedzic 1]

olddirty,

My assumption is that many, if not most, coaches of world champions are not world champions themselves. Aren't they telling their athletes how to be a world champion?

 

Yes, but I hope none claims to be a "World Wrestling Champion." If they do, I'd be looking for a new coach. I'd have trouble building the requisite trust needed between a coach and his/her wrestler. :?:

[HuskyHero133 52]

Hmm... seems like a semantics game to me but I am NOT a world champion wrestler so what do I know :).

 

Did Wade say the 7 pt tech was stupid or that 2 three pt moves ending a match was ridiculous or something?

[BobDole 1,193]

Do you need to be a world champion to tell someone what it takes to be a world champion? Yes

 

How come wrestling is the only sport where this is supposedly true?

[Plasmodium 2,224]

LOL Was the Baron ever a world champion? Perhaps he could add something to this discussion.

[StanDziedzic 1]

Do you need to be a world champion to tell someone what it takes to be a world champion? Yes

 

How come wrestling is the only sport where this is supposedly true?

 

 

Is wrestling the only sport where the top turn to former greats when they struggle to make that nuanced difference?

 

" :shock: Ivan Lendl, the tennis great who Murray hired as a coach in 2012, stayed in his seat and clapped politely when Murray finished his straight-set win over Novak Djokovic. Lendl has never been demonstrative, so it was hardly a surprise. But you’d think even he, the man who won eight Grand Slams .....may have been a little more excited than this."

 

My experience has been, the best coaches that were not World Champions are great coaches because they recognize where their expertise end and fill the void. Many times that's difficult for World Champions to do, which limits them as a coach. I recognized I would not be a good college coach because I lacked the patience. :?

[Billyhoyle 2,472]

Hmm... seems like a semantics game to me but I am NOT a world champion wrestler so what do I know :).

 

Did Wade say the 7 pt tech was stupid or that 2 three pt moves ending a match was ridiculous or something?

 

 

Pretty much. Here are the attacks from Schalles that prompted the call out.

http://wadeschalles.com/136/ http://wadeschalles.com/2020-olympic-wr ... confident/

 

I find it pathetic to take a shot at Schalles for voicing his opinion and criticizing FILA on the grounds that he claims to be a "world champion," but actually isn't, since according to real world champions, being a university world champion doesn't count.

 

Everyone knows that a university title isn't nearly the same achievement, but leading up to university worlds, why is the Vice President of FILA undermining the importance of the event? Shouldn't you be promoting it? O wait, I guess I forgot that FILA doesn't promote any of its events.

 

Also, while you're here, how about commenting on something useful like the reasoning behind the 7 point tech and 2, 3 point moves ending a match? As the American voice in FILA, were you adamantly opposed to it? Was this a decision agreed upon by world champions?

[Buckeyebison 87]

Wouldn't Tbsili championships considered as up there with World championships as they would have Russia/Soviet National champions or World champions in the tournaments?

[paver1surf1 1]

Hmm... seems like a semantics game to me but I am NOT a world champion wrestler so what do I know :).

 

Did Wade say the 7 pt tech was stupid or that 2 three pt moves ending a match was ridiculous or something?

 

 

Pretty much. Here are the attacks from Schalles that prompted the call out.

http://wadeschalles.com/136/ http://wadeschalles.com/2020-olympic-wr ... confident/

 

I find it pathetic to take a shot at Schalles for voicing his opinion and criticizing FILA on the grounds that he claims to be a "world champion," but actually isn't, since according to real world champions, being a university world champion doesn't count.

 

Everyone knows that a university title isn't nearly the same achievement, but leading up to university worlds, why is the Vice President of FILA undermining the importance of the event? Shouldn't you be promoting it? O wait, I guess I forgot that FILA doesn't promote any of its events.

 

Also, while you're here, how about commented on something useful like the reasoning behind the 7 point tech and 2, 3 point moves ending a match? As the American voice in FILA, were you adamantly opposed to it? Was this a decision agreed upon by world champions?

 

+1

[olddirty 345]

olddirty,

My assumption is that many, if not most, coaches of world champions are not world champions themselves. Aren't they telling their athletes how to be a world champion?

 

I would say that if you have personally coached a guy to a world title, then you can tell them what they need to do to become one. If my college coach told me that I would never be a world champ unless I did so and so, I wouldnt just take it as gold. Mark Manning told me, I wouldnt doubt it, even though he was not a world champ himself.

 

I agree with Stan, that someone who calls themself a world champion that wasnt a senior level world champ, I would find that disingenuous. I won the NAGA world championships last year. I would feel like a real fraud if I conveniently left out the "NAGA" and just listed myself as a world champ. That could literally mean anything and people will often draw inaccurate conclusions. I think that is what Stan is going for here. However, that does not make Schalles opinions about USAW or FILA invalid.

[tirapell 34]

Stan, with all that you have going on right now with the IOC, FILA, rules, etc, it is mindboggling that you choose to spend your time and effort debating the definition of a "world champion" on someone's website. Especially considering that someone is one of the greatest American wrestlers of all time, has extensive domestic and international wrestling experience, and posses not only the experience but the intelligence to articulate his very valid concerns in a time of crisis for our sport. Once again, where you (FILA) should be embracing ideas, you take any criticism or suggestion as a threat to your omnipotent power.

 

What I find odd but par for the course is that while you've had time to make 5 posts about the titling of a website and your own meaningless personal vendetta, you seem to have little time for discussion of the rules that govern our sport and its future and perhaps fate, if changes are not made.

 

You are the true epitome of what FILA has become, and nowhere in that lies a compliment.

[sockobuw 49]

Stan, with all that you have going on right now with the IOC, FILA, rules, etc, it is mindboggling that you choose to spend your time and effort debating the definition of a "world champion" on someone's website. Especially considering that someone is one of the greatest American wrestlers of all time, has extensive domestic and international wrestling experience, and posses not only the experience but the intelligence to articulate his very valid concerns in a time of crisis for our sport. Once again, where you (FILA) should be embracing ideas, you take any criticism or suggestion as a threat to your omnipotent power.

 

What I find odd but par for the course is that while you've had time to make 5 posts about the titling of a website and your own meaningless personal vendetta, you seem to have little time for discussion of the rules that govern our sport and its future and perhaps fate, if changes are not made.

 

You are the true epitome of what FILA has become, and nowhere in that lies a compliment.

 

+1, i don't have enough time to accurately add the correct amount of zeros to show the true value i think the post deserves

[MadMardigain 1,596]

Here's a recent thread about the rules that seems to be asking for Stan's input or needing some high level clarification/rational

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=78828

 

Here is another

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=61753#p280590

 

and another

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=60790#p279442