Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
sparkywhite

cael did haines dirty?

Recommended Posts

I can't believe you are giving Cael a pass, can the man do no wrong in your eyes? The guy reneged on an agreement, simply put a better prospect showed interest, that fit more into their time scale of when Heavy would open up.

 

 

I deleted your name calling.

 

If a coach had the #35 Hwt. recruited, and subsequently the #1 Hwt. committed to his school and he took him over the #35 kid, would you blame the coach? If you would, then you can't expect your school to ever be competitive. This is what happened here. The coach took the better prospect. It really is no more than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cael's not the saint people think he is. Dirty move by a tactless individual. Jk. Kinda.

 

I do feel bad for Haines though. I'm sure he will fit in at another school and hopefully give Cael the bubba Jenkins treatment again. Maybe that could be Cael's thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Can you name another coach who has notably reneged on a verbal? I'm sure it has happened, and I'm sure plenty will go from offering a kid .75 of a scholarship to then saying they only have room for .5 .. But to go from actively recruiting a guy, making a big deal about his committment, and then offering him absolutely nothing seems different from any situation that I can remember. The only thing that comes to my mind is the Brands/Blanton fiasco, but i don't think it was quite this egregious.

 

 

Brands and Blanton had agreed to a scholarship amount and then Brands reduced it. Seems more egregious to me, not less.

 

So many people making such a fuss here. Yes, this sucked for Haines but when it comes down to scholarships, it is flat out business and these coaches are paid to do what's in the best interest of the team within the rules. Haines is now in negotiation with at least 3 big time programs with plenty of time to decide. Not exactly the end of the world for this young man.

 

The Brands/Blanton situation was CONSIDERABLY different. Brands did not recruit someone he thought was better in Blanton's spot. Brands felt he had a situation similar to what Pro sports do with Salary Caps. He went to Blanton and said he was having a hard time with distributing his 9.9 scholarships and asked Blanton if he would be willing to take a reduction for the betterment of the team. He didn't FULLY PULL his scholarship offer. He wanted to offer him less. Blanton felt slighted. Which I would have as well. But what Brands did was considerably more honest and forthright than what transpired with Cael/Haines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been going on since before I finished high school in the 70s.

 

Its too bad...not sure how many scholarship opportunities out there are left for Haines. Wasn't national signing day like back in April ?

 

I've seen worse, however, back in my day ( early 80s). A certain coach brought a young man aboard with scholarship for a year then yanked it for no other reason than he wanted to get a different guy who became available. So the first wrestler ended up leaving and did well at a D-2 school, even made it to the D-1 tournament, but still its not a great way to treat someone.

 

Hopefully Haines will get on with a better situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why wouldnt Cael honor his offer to Haines and Thomas' commitment to him by telling Nevills, "Haines is currently our guy, you beat him out, your our guy!"??? Was Macintosh also from Clovis? Maybe Cael like Macintosh's work ethic and hoped Nevills brought the same? How much film of Haines and Nevills does Cael and Staff watch before this decision is made?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Haines/Nevills and Blandon/Gambrall situations have some similarities and differences.

 

Similarities: In both situations, one kid made a verbal commitment (Haines to PSU, Blanton to Iowa), then the school attracted they liked better (Nevills to PSU, Gambrall to Iowa), and then the coach (Brands / Sanderson) broke the news to the first kid in a way that caused him to decommit.

 

Differences:

 

1. Brands reneged on part of Blanton's prevoiusly-promised scholarship (reducing it by 40%). Sanderson had never made any promises about scholarship money, or any other promises at all except to accept his verbal.

 

2. Brands broke the news to Blanton less than a week before the National LOI period, minimizing Blanton's opportunity to pursue alternatives. Sanderson told Haines' family within a day of the first permissible opportunity (7/1, when NCAA rules permit scholarships to be discussed).

 

3. Sanderson told Haines' family in person. Brands just called Blanton's mom from his phone.

 

Oh, one other difference:

 

4. According to VakAttack, Iowa's handling of the Blanton situation was perfectly above-board and wholly undeserving of criticism, but PSU's handling of the Haines situation was "crappy."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Acadia, I read the article. It does not say that Cael actively recruited him. It seems Haines just wanted to go there so Cael said OK.

 

AnklePicker, as I read the article, it really isn't clear one way or another. But while there is reference to some kind of "verbal agreement", that agreement concievably (and I would even say likely) could have contained the caveat that they would have to review scholarship availability in July. That said, I find it hard now to pass judgement on either side. At the very least, it seems there was a misunderstanding, but it may have only been that.

 

I know I came down a bit hard on Cael at the beginning of this thread, but with what is currently known, I have to modify my stance to "no verdict". There simply isn't enough information here to judge anybody... and likely, there won't be any more coming out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea with the verbal is it takes all of the heat off the recruit and recruiter. No way the kid verbals without some type of reception from the coach. That does the recruit the biggest disservice.

 

Of course, pulling out of the verbal puts the recruit at a certain disadvantage as everyone else is lining up their intentions ahead of this point too. But I'm sure all sides will be fine and we can look back here 5 years from now to see if Cael's thinking worked out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BAC - IIRC, the issue with Blanton was not they found someone they liked better (Gramball) it was that Tsirtsis unexpectedly decided to redshirt after Blanton verbaled - so they wouldn't have his scholarship money available when Blanton first came to Iowa City.

 

Regardless, I don't think either coach did anything wrong in either situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why wouldnt Cael honor his offer to Haines and Thomas' commitment to him by telling Nevills, "Haines is currently our guy, you beat him out, your our guy!"??? Was Macintosh also from Clovis? Maybe Cael like Macintosh's work ethic and hoped Nevills brought the same? How much film of Haines and Nevills does Cael and Staff watch before this decision is made?

 

Macintosh went to Calvary, not Clovis. And Cael didn't have to honor his offer, because there was no offer to Haines. Just accepting him to come. By letting him know now that there won't be money for him, it gives Haines an opportunity to find another school he likes that will give him the money he deserves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BAC - IIRC, the issue with Blanton was not they found someone they liked better (Gramball) it was that Tsirtsis unexpectedly decided to redshirt after Blanton verbaled - so they wouldn't have his scholarship money available when Blanton first came to Iowa City.

 

Regardless, I don't think either coach did anything wrong in either situation.

 

Gantry, it was both. When Iowa got an in-state kid, Gambrall, who owned a win over Blanton, Blanton became expendable. The reason allegedly cited by Brands for the scholly reduction was indeed to free up money for Tsirtsis, who got another year. There was disagreement at the time whether that was the real reason, as opposed to simply reallocating scholarship money away from someone who was no longer as much of a need, but either way the fact is that new recruit Blanton (not Gambrall or anyone else) is the one that Brands hit up for a scholarship reduction.

 

Honesty the Blanton situation didn't sit well to me. Even if its not in writing, if a coach goes to a kid and says, "If you come here your scholarship will be X," it better be X. He can ask if he'll take a reduction to accommodate someone else, so long as you still honor it if the kid says no, but you don't just unilaterally cut a kid's scholarship like that. Not cool.

 

The Haines situation does not bother me. Though Haines' dad uses the word "renege", it isn't clear what he means, since there are literally no promises that Sanderson could have made -- and Haines specifically says there was no prior discussion of scholarships. All Sanderson did was say "yes" when Haines verballed, and even now its not like Sanderson was saying you can't walk on. I appreciate it may have been frustrating to see Nevills commit the next day, but it would have violated NCAA rules for Sanderson to comment to Haines on what he thinks some other potential recruit might do. If anyone can comment intelligently on what they think Sanderson could or should have done differently -- or for that matter, what any coach is supposed to do when they get a verbal from a high-profile kid prior to 7/1, and the coach knows that they aren't going to have scholarship money for him -- I'm all ears. As best as I can tell, Sanderson handled that situation in textbook fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kind of reminds me of a similar situation and the recruiting of DT. Pretty much given the spot over Bubba Jay and how'd that end up for Cael and PSU? I can't wait till Haines and Nevlis (spelling) wrestle and Haines proves Cael, PSU, and everyone else completely wrong. CAN YOU SAY DAPPER DAN!! but Sanderson will probably have Nevlis say no to the invite. Only time will tell! #teamhaines

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice job, BAC. First you smear Brands who has nothing to do with this, and then you complement Sanderson, who, at the very least, changed his mind when a higher-ranked recruit became available. Are you a politician or a lawyer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Brands did things the way BAC described him then good, he deserves to have his name drug through the mud. Being a head coach isn't easy - that's why they make the money they do at big programs. Making a few enemies along the way comes with the territory when you need to make decisions that come to money. Brands dicked a kid over. Maybe it wasn't entirely his fault with the Tsirtsis scenario, but it was still a dickish move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BAC - IIRC, the issue with Blanton was not they found someone they liked better (Gramball) it was that Tsirtsis unexpectedly decided to redshirt after Blanton verbaled - so they wouldn't have his scholarship money available when Blanton first came to Iowa City.

 

Regardless, I don't think either coach did anything wrong in either situation.

 

Gantry, it was both. When Iowa got an in-state kid, Gambrall, who owned a win over Blanton, Blanton became expendable. The reason allegedly cited by Brands for the scholly reduction was indeed to free up money for Tsirtsis, who got another year. There was disagreement at the time whether that was the real reason, as opposed to simply reallocating scholarship money away from someone who was no longer as much of a need, but either way the fact is that new recruit Blanton (not Gambrall or anyone else) is the one that Brands hit up for a scholarship reduction.

 

Honesty the Blanton situation didn't sit well to me. Even if its not in writing, if a coach goes to a kid and says, "If you come here your scholarship will be X," it better be X. He can ask if he'll take a reduction to accommodate someone else, so long as you still honor it if the kid says no, but you don't just unilaterally cut a kid's scholarship like that. Not cool.

 

The Haines situation does not bother me. Though Haines' dad uses the word "renege", it isn't clear what he means, since there are literally no promises that Sanderson could have made -- and Haines specifically says there was no prior discussion of scholarships. All Sanderson did was say "yes" when Haines verballed, and even now its not like Sanderson was saying you can't walk on. I appreciate it may have been frustrating to see Nevills commit the next day, but it would have violated NCAA rules for Sanderson to comment to Haines on what he thinks some other potential recruit might do. If anyone can comment intelligently on what they think Sanderson could or should have done differently -- or for that matter, what any coach is supposed to do when they get a verbal from a high-profile kid prior to 7/1, and the coach knows that they aren't going to have scholarship money for him -- I'm all ears. As best as I can tell, Sanderson handled that situation in textbook fashion.

 

How do you know that noone else wasn't asked to reduce their scholarship at Iowa? Or that they didn't accept reduced aid? Rumor has it that Tsirtsis was on a full ride so simply reducing Blanton's by .4 wouldn't have cleared the space needed.

 

You are talking out of your ass trying to justify Cael's actions (which in my opinion don't need justifying nor did he do anything wrong) by making Brands look bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If Brands did things the way BAC described him then good, he deserves to have his name drug through the mud. Being a head coach isn't easy - that's why they make the money they do at big programs. Making a few enemies along the way comes with the territory when you need to make decisions that come to money. Brands dicked a kid over. Maybe it wasn't entirely his fault with the Tsirtsis scenario, but it was still a dickish move.

If anything were the way BAC describes, you might have some legitimate ground. Unfortunately, I doubt that.

Brands may have had promises to both Tsirtsis and Blanton. My guess is that the prior promise won out, not the recruit he perceived to be better. Like Sanderson's situation, Brands was/is not at liberty to talk about it. Leave it to the Ninja Lion fans to drag Brands into this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Did Cael recruit and pursue Haines? If he did that would be a bit shady but if Haines just decided on his own that he wanted to go to PSU why on earth wouldn't Cael accept his verbal commitment? What's he supposed to say, "no Thomas, you don't want to come here because we MIGHT get some HWT from CA? Get real.

 

Read the article he was recruited and he wanted to go there.

Cael couldn't recruit him until July 1st. Haines would be the one that would have had to initiate contact with Penn State.

 

When Haines contacts Cael is he supposed to say, "nope not interested, sorry?"

 

Lets be real as Haines was the one who started with the verbal in November. Per NCAA regulations Cael probably responded with a "great, glad to have you on board, we can discuss financials after July 1 as we will know our scholarship allotment then." Come July 2nd Cael goes to the guy's house and says he wouldn't be a good fit(note he can't say we are recruiting another heavy).

 

I give Cael credit for 1. doing this in person and 2. giving the guy a heads up to look at other schools that would have and open slot for a guy like Haines. I can understand that the Haines family would be a little upset, but life goes on and he will find another good school to attend. It isn't the end of the world here fellas.

 

BS you can recruit before July 1st, you can't offer scholly officially until July 1st. Finally, Haines is Senior , Nevilles is a Jr ... the offering of the scholly was verbally made, obviously it's not official until you can officially sign on July 1st. There is something absolutely nefarious, in that rising Jr Nevilles showed interest, and Cael said well let's lock him up, and it fit their time scale as after red shirt Lawson is gone, and Heavy is free. The idea you can't recruit before before July 1st is false, you could recruit a 7th grader if you wanted, you just can't offer a scholly until a certain date in the signing period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are correct, both rising Seniors.

 

Either way, the bottom line, is that Cael saw a better recruit and simply recruited over Haines. Which is fine, but people pretending like Cael showed some integrity or gets a slap on the back for this are full of it. Dude was slimey in this situation end of story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are correct, both rising Seniors.

 

Either way, the bottom line, is that Cael saw a better recruit and simply recruited over Haines. Which is fine, but people pretending like Cael showed some integrity or gets a slap on the back for this are full of it. Dude was slimey in this situation end of story.

 

True

Slimy maybe a bit harsh, but not on the up and up

 

and it is an ncaa violation for coaches to contact a kid via phone or in person before 7/1 of their senior year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...