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sparkywhite

cael did haines dirty?

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Cael did nothing wrong. End of topic.

 

I it when people post things like this, as if they're the definitive statement on the subject. LOts of people DO feel Cael did something wrong, even if some think it was minor but still harsh, while some think it's the height of villainy.

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Cael did nothing wrong. End of topic.

 

I it when people post things like this, as if they're the definitive statement on the subject. LOts of people DO feel Cael did something wrong, even if some think it was minor but still harsh, while some think it's the height of villainy.

 

What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

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Cael did nothing wrong. End of topic.

 

When people post things like this, as if they're the definitive statement on the subject. Lots of people DO feel Cael did something wrong, even if some think it was minor but still harsh, while some think it's the height of villainy.

 

I'm with you, Vak. In my world, your word is your bond. And I'm dealing with consenting adults, not 18 year olds. It's inconceivable to me that you would give your word to a young person, and then go back on it.

 

What kind of message does that send?

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Many are assuming that a promise was made, which is knowledge you can't possibly have.

 

It's a story because it's Cael and Penn State is the 3x champs. There are a lot of people who irrationally hate Penn State (because they are winning) and want to see negative stories about them and a lot of people who irrationally love Penn State and will defend anything.

 

I hope Haines goes to Maryland. Seems like a perfect fit.

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In my opinion there was not real good solution to it. It is unfortunate that it turned out how it did, but I don't think it was done with ill intentions. I think difficult scenarios like these are things that top programs encounter from time to time. I think it is unfortunate that it had to go down like it did, but I also don't think it is or will be the common practice for Cael. I know some will point to the Bubba situations but I think that is a different scenario entirely. The two of them seemed to have friction, and Cael has just taken over. You cant start a new program with friction. I remember Mizzou doing a similar thing to Scott Barker as Cael did to Bubba. B. Smith caught a lot of crap for that too, but as a new coach you can't have resistance. As the the Haines situation. While it sucks big time D-1 athletics is a business. Even with the best businesses tough decisions have to be made and good leaders make those tough decision. I don't think Cael liked having to do it, but felt he needed to (right or wrong). As for him backing out, if you are looking from a business standpoint, it would be the equivalent of having a very good investment in front of you, and then being presented with one that may bring a little more return. Yet you only have the money for one. Does it suck, Yes. Does it come across as a little wrong? Yes, but again I don't think his whole character can be called into question because I don't think it is something that is or will be normal practice. It was a unique situation that not everyone is faced with. As for what he said "not a good fit", there probably could have been a better word choice, and it probably wasn't meant as hard as it sounded. But truth be told, there is really no good way to say or do it. Even if he would have worded it differently it would sound wrong. That is just how it is. for Haines, I know if felt personal as it would have for me or my kid. I would expect that Cael understands that. From Cael's perspective I don't think it was personal and I am sure he didn't like doing it. I think he probably made the best effort he could and did what he felt was the right was, as best as it could be. The truth is there is no right or good way for something like this, and could he have seen in advance that it would go this way I am sure it would have went different all together. It isn't like they are a top 10-20 team trying to break the top 5. They are consistently competing for a national title year in and year out with OSU, tOSU, Iowa, and Minnesota, in a tournament where one match is the difference between a national title and a potential 5th place. Completely different circumstances than for the rest of the field outside of that five team. Haines will land on his feet, and I sure he will be on a mission against PSU, as I don't blame him. For him I am sure it is personal. For Cael, I would assume that is was a decision that wasn't enjoyable. To be honest, in my opinion, it would have been more unfair to give him the illusion that he may start and him burn his years if that wasn't likely to happen. Just my opinion.

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What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

If Sanderson hadn't suggested or at least hinted at something, he would not have needed to visit and to dampen Haines's expectations. The reaction of the Haines family speaks volumes. If they hadn't expected something, then Haines would just "walk on" and battle for a spot. They obviously expected something. As for your misogyny (look it up, tough guy), it won't help your arguments.

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Cael did nothing wrong. End of topic.

 

I it when people post things like this, as if they're the definitive statement on the subject. LOts of people DO feel Cael did something wrong, even if some think it was minor but still harsh, while some think it's the height of villainy.

 

What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

 

So, just to be clear, we have no inside information, but Cael did nothing wrong. So you have some inside information?

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Cael did nothing wrong. End of topic.

 

I it when people post things like this, as if they're the definitive statement on the subject. LOts of people DO feel Cael did something wrong, even if some think it was minor but still harsh, while some think it's the height of villainy.

 

What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

 

I personally know the wrestler, his dad and his HS coach. And for being so critical of comments, you sure posted a bunch of crap.

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I personally know the wrestler, his dad and his HS coach. And for being so critical of comments, you sure posted a bunch of crap.

 

 

Yes, unfortunately situations like this bring out the worst in message boards. There are always those who will go to any length to defend their team (often a school they didn't even go to), and frequently those lengths involve belittling the student athletes involved.

 

Cael is in a position where he can and should be able to take criticism, and reneging on a verbal ought to draw significant criticism from the community as a whole. With that said, it's not as if he has ruined Haines' career or future, and there is always the potential that this turns into a win/win situation for both. Only time will tell.

 

What there should be little argument about here is that Haines and his family did nothing wrong and didn't deserve to be drawn into this controversy.

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I it when people post things like this, as if they're the definitive statement on the subject. LOts of people DO feel Cael did something wrong, even if some think it was minor but still harsh, while some think it's the height of villainy.

 

What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

 

So, just to be clear, we have no inside information, but Cael did nothing wrong. So you have some inside information?

 

Sure do.

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What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

If Sanderson hadn't suggested or at least hinted at something, he would not have needed to visit and to dampen Haines's expectations. The reaction of the Haines family speaks volumes. If they hadn't expected something, then Haines would just "walk on" and battle for a spot. They obviously expected something. As for your misogyny (look it up, tough guy), it won't help your arguments.

 

Typical douche on his high horse. Accuses me of being sexist, and thinks he is that much more intelligent than me (without knowing who I am or what I do), that he has the nerve to tell me to look up a word he is so positive I do not know the meaning of. Wrong, per usual I am guessing. You are that typical guy who thinks he is more intelligent than the rest of the population, and would be impossible to argue with.

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This is just to clarify some of the background info and timeline, since there seem to be some asserted facts that aren't, and suppositions not supported.

 

1. Haines verballed to PSU in Nov 2012, without really checking out any other schools. He was a Penn State fan and idolized Cael. He had since made numerous campus trips for duals and Nittany Lion Wrestling Club workouts.

2. PSU currently has 4 HWTs on its roster. Three (Lawson, Gingrich, Ruggear) graduate in 2015. Only Lakitsky (2016) would remain on the roster after Haines' redshirt year.

3. Lakitsky just transferred in this summer and, like Lawson, played college football for 2 years. Unlike Lawson, Lakitsky will both play football and wrestle at PSU -- being a two-sport athlete was a condition of his transfer. It's hard to imagine Cael relying very much on a part-year guy who took 2 years off, especially given Lawson's experience this year.

4. Haines had known for some time that PSU was continuing to recruit 285. There was no indication that PSU was recruiting two guys for one roster spot. Especially considering the 285 situation noted above. Haines was clearly not under the impression his roster spot was in jeopardy before enrollment.

5. Word was that Haines was not looking for big money. This makes sense -- if money is the goal, then why commit so early without making schools compete for your services?

6. Nevills apparently came to PSU, as opposed to PSU initiating. PSU was not believed to have had Nevills in mind when telling Haines that 285 recruiting would continue. I don't think anyone faults PSU for talking when Nevills called.

7. Willie tweeted on 6/29: "wow. penn state wrestling. don't ask, cause i aint tellin'." With hindsight, this was clearly Nevills' verbal, and Willie said as much when he eventually broke the news. Willie teased and pocketed the news until Cael could talk with Haines.

8. Before 7/1, Haines called to confirm an NLWC workout. Cael told him that he would instead drive to Quarryville for a face-to-face.

9. According to Mr. Haines: "He said that they didn’t feel Thomas was the right fit and maybe the verbal agreement was done too quickly and maybe they should have put a little more thought into it." This is a rejection, not a low-ball offer.

10. Also according to Mr. Haines: "He said he and Sanderson did not discuss the possibility of walking on." Cael certainly could have brought it up if he wanted Haines for free. We can reasonably conclude Cael no longer wanted Haines at all, even for free.

11. The next day, Willie broke the news on Nevills. Haines learned about it from the Flo article. If there were still any chance of Haines walking on at PSU, this ended it.

 

Again, this is only to establish the facts, reasonable supported inferences, and the timeline. ClawRide and some others are closer to the situation; I am very willing to be corrected if I misunderstood or misrepresented anything above.

 

As an aside, the last time PSU was this understaffed at a weight, Cael picked up both Megaludis and Conaway for 125, though Conaway was a Liberty commit until that program was canceled after his SR state tourney, and the understaffed condition was immediate and not projected after a redshirt year.

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What it is, is a bunch of men with female traits, being overly sensitive on a matter they have no idea about. They have no connection to the situation what so ever, have no inside information to share, yet want to bash, assume, and gossip negatively like women at an Orange County tea party. Cael went to the kids house the first day he kid. He told the kid face to face that his verbal would not turn into a full ride. He said it wasnt a good fit. How is that unethical? Was he not supposed to recruit Nevills until after the meeting with Haines? Was he supposed to tell Nevills to hold off his announcement to spare Haines feelings? Coaches recruit multiple top recruits at the same weight all the time. What if Haines blew his knee out? Then Cael is out Haines and every other top recruit if he wasnt recruiting other top guys. He allowed Haines to verbal. Was he supposed to tell him no? He never promised him anything. He wasnt allowed to. Cael did what other coaches do all the time, except most of the time, the kids parents dont talk to the press and basically blame the coach like Haines dad did. It happens in all sports. Something similar happened to me in baseball. Cael gave him the most time he possibly could to allow him to find another suitable college choice. People are ridiculous on here. Babies.

If Sanderson hadn't suggested or at least hinted at something, he would not have needed to visit and to dampen Haines's expectations. The reaction of the Haines family speaks volumes. If they hadn't expected something, then Haines would just "walk on" and battle for a spot. They obviously expected something. As for your misogyny (look it up, tough guy), it won't help your arguments.

 

Typical douche on his high horse. Accuses me of being sexist, and thinks he is that much more intelligent than me (without knowing who I am or what I do), that he has the nerve to tell me to look up a word he is so positive I do not know the meaning of. Wrong, per usual I am guessing. You are that typical guy who thinks he is more intelligent than the rest of the population, and would be impossible to argue with.

And what do you think your posts will make us assume about you?

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And what do you think your posts will make us assume about you?

 

That's easy bud. That I do not conform to this bs politically correct standard set these days. Everyone is so sensitive, and has to find anything and everything to complain about. It is sickening to me. "Please dont say that, someone might get offended". You cannot say anything these days. Same with the overall majority of society that hates winners. People love to see winners fail, or people fail at something good. That is because alot of people have no balls or will power to endure the kind of sacrifices and intensity it takes to do something great. So instead of rooting for someone/team to accomplish something great, whether that be in sports or life in general, people decide to root for failure. Jealousy runs wild in this world. This topic is a good example of that. People with no direct knowledge of the situation, jumping at the chance to bring down the most successful coach and program in college wrestling right now. They even try to bring Cael down in the GOAT threads, so that Golden Boy Dake can dethrone him hypothetically. Another example would be NE Patriots. We had a chance to see a 19-0 team. Something that may never be done ever again in the salary cap era. Yet a majority of the world that watches the NFL, was rooting and praying that the lowly Giants take out the Pats. Why? That was HISTORY. Nobody wanted to see history? No, because to them seeing success fall is much more rewarding for their minds. They could not fulfill their dreams, most likely due to laziness, so they root against success. You can use all the big words you want Grapplefan. If that makes you feel smarter than everyone else, congrats. I see right through overly sensitive, politically correct sheep like you.

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And what do you think your posts will make us assume about you?

 

That's easy bud. That I do not conform to this bs politically correct standard set these days. Everyone is so sensitive, and has to find anything and everything to complain about. It is sickening to me. "Please dont say that, someone might get offended". You cannot say anything these days. Same with the overall majority of society that hates winners. People love to see winners fail, or people fail at something good. That is because alot of people have no balls or will power to endure the kind of sacrifices and intensity it takes to do something great. So instead of rooting for someone/team to accomplish something great, whether that be in sports or life in general, people decide to root for failure. Jealousy runs wild in this world. This topic is a good example of that. People with no direct knowledge of the situation, jumping at the chance to bring down the most successful coach and program in college wrestling right now. They even try to bring Cael down in the GOAT threads, so that Golden Boy Dake can dethrone him hypothetically. Another example would be NE Patriots. We had a chance to see a 19-0 team. Something that may never be done ever again in the salary cap era. Yet a majority of the world that watches the NFL, was rooting and praying that the lowly Giants take out the Pats. Why? That was HISTORY. Nobody wanted to see history? No, because to them seeing success fall is much more rewarding for their minds. They could not fulfill their dreams, most likely due to laziness, so they root against success. You can use all the big words you want Grapplefan. If that makes you feel smarter than everyone else, congrats. I see right through overly sensitive, politically correct sheep like you.

And now we don't have to assume any more. Thank you.

I sincerely wish you luck in life. You'll need it.

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And what do you think your posts will make us assume about you?

 

That's easy bud. That I do not conform to this bs politically correct standard set these days. Everyone is so sensitive, and has to find anything and everything to complain about. It is sickening to me. "Please dont say that, someone might get offended". You cannot say anything these days. Same with the overall majority of society that hates winners. People love to see winners fail, or people fail at something good. That is because alot of people have no balls or will power to endure the kind of sacrifices and intensity it takes to do something great. So instead of rooting for someone/team to accomplish something great, whether that be in sports or life in general, people decide to root for failure. Jealousy runs wild in this world. This topic is a good example of that. People with no direct knowledge of the situation, jumping at the chance to bring down the most successful coach and program in college wrestling right now. They even try to bring Cael down in the GOAT threads, so that Golden Boy Dake can dethrone him hypothetically. Another example would be NE Patriots. We had a chance to see a 19-0 team. Something that may never be done ever again in the salary cap era. Yet a majority of the world that watches the NFL, was rooting and praying that the lowly Giants take out the Pats. Why? That was HISTORY. Nobody wanted to see history? No, because to them seeing success fall is much more rewarding for their minds. They could not fulfill their dreams, most likely due to laziness, so they root against success. You can use all the big words you want Grapplefan. If that makes you feel smarter than everyone else, congrats. I see right through overly sensitive, politically correct sheep like you.

And now we don't have to assume any more. Thank you.

I sincerely wish you luck in life. You'll need it.

 

Just the response I thought. Safe and lacking substance.

 

And PS. I love my life. I get to be a course pro at a great golf course, and Im a part time MLB scout in the southwest region. Beautiful wife and kids. If anyone needs luck, it's you. I couldn't imagine all the things that upset you, and have you complaining on a regular basis.

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Lol. Snapnscore is now a social crusader. Trying to save society with his epic foresight and impeccable insight into the human condition. Good stuff.

 

I just wish he would use a paragraph or two, so I can read his diatribes, attacks, tirades, invective's, denunciations, harangues, rants, criticisms, discourses ..or what ever they are. JEEZ ... :roll:

 

I skip right over them ... Have I missed anything?

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Lol. Snapnscore is now a social crusader. Trying to save society with his epic foresight and impeccable insight into the human condition. Good stuff.

 

I just wish he would use a paragraph or two, so I can read his diatribes, attacks, tirades, invective's, denunciations, harangues, rants, criticisms, discourses ..or what ever they are. JEEZ ... :roll:

 

I skip right over them ... Have I missed anything?

 

Yeah who needs posts like mine, when you have posts that use a stable of words that basically all amount to the same meaning, while attempting to establish themselves as intelligent.

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Just the response I thought. Safe and lacking substance.

 

And PS. I love my life. I get to be a course pro at a great golf course, and Im a part time MLB scout in the southwest region. Beautiful wife and kids. If anyone needs luck, it's you. I couldn't imagine all the things that upset you, and have you complaining on a regular basis.

I didn't ask for your life story and I don't really care. At least you didn't post another three paragraphs on your views.

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Accuses me of being sexist, and thinks he is that much more intelligent than me (without knowing who I am or what I do), that he has the nerve to tell me to look up a word he is so positive I do not know the meaning of.

 

That's an ugly sentence, Strunk.

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Lol. Snapnscore is now a social crusader. Trying to save society with his epic foresight and impeccable insight into the human condition. Good stuff.

 

I just wish he would use a paragraph or two, so I can read his diatribes, attacks, tirades, invective's, denunciations, harangues, rants, criticisms, discourses ..or what ever they are. JEEZ ... :roll:

 

I skip right over them ... Have I missed anything?

 

Yeah who needs posts like mine, when you have posts that use a stable of words that basically all amount to the same meaning, while attempting to establish themselves as intelligent.

 

Because clearly your posts are the last bastion of intelligence on the internet. And I thought I had narcissistic tendencies.

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Accuses me of being sexist, and thinks he is that much more intelligent than me (without knowing who I am or what I do), that he has the nerve to tell me to look up a word he is so positive I do not know the meaning of.

 

That's an ugly sentence, Strunk.

 

But what would White say? ;)

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And PS. I love my life. I get to be a course pro at a great golf course, and Im a part time MLB scout in the southwest region. Beautiful wife and kids. If anyone needs luck, it's you. I couldn't imagine all the things that upset you, and have you complaining on a regular basis.

 

you sound familiar....do you drink Dos Equis?

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