Pavlo Oleynik- Jake Varner

[Tripster 0]

Here is a clear case of a manufactured European champion just like at Olympics. They put the Russian, Azeri and the Georgian, the 3 top wrestlers all together and gave the Pole two cakewalks after which he beat an exhausted Russian that just had 2 hell matches. Then Oleynik had all cakewalks on the other side and beat the Pole in the finals never having to face the three top wrestlers in an honest match.

 

So, at University Games Oleynik again gets an easy half but Gadisov makes it to the finals and proves that Oleynik is a manufactured champion by easily teching him.

[VakAttack 2,701]

Yeah, obviously. People fluke there way to these titles all the time especially when Russians lose, since that can clearly only be a fluke.

[tec87 349]

Yeah, obviously. People fluke there way to these titles all the time especially when Russians lose, since that can clearly only be a fluke.

 

Vak, do you think if we all flood the mod's with enough messages, that we could get them to sticky a thread at the top of each sub-forum saying don't feed the trolls(with a list of the trolls not to feed) and maybe some of these people would go away since they have nobody to annoy?

[Tripster 0]

Why do you tec prevent a normal and legitimate discussion with your clueless drivel? Its a legitimate point. Oleynik is nowhere near a European champion level. Its a legitimate point. Whom has Oleynik ever beaten that is a World class wrestler?

 

Are we supposed to all just sing praise songs to American wrestlers regardless of a situation? How can you not understand a lucky draw is nothing for the advancement of wrestling in an established wrestling country like America. You get a lucky draw and win. So what? Next time you will not win unless you again get a lucky draw.

[Tripster 0]

European championships become a joke when a Pole places 2nd there due to a lucky draw and then places 17th at Aliev 2 months later.

 

Maybe they should have 2 different Europeans and World tourneys. One for established countries and one for developing countries kind of like DI and DII or DIII wrestling in USA. Then top 2 from a lower tourney can compete in a higher tourney. Because putting 3 or 4 top guys together and then letting someone else win in another half doesn't help established powers one bit. The best wrestlers sacrifice their lives and then they have to deal with this stuff for the sake of some African or Latin American or some French wrestler or some Polish wrestler.

[Matburn155 3]

I like tecs idea.

[VakAttack 2,701]

Why do you tec prevent a normal and legitimate discussion with your clueless drivel? Its a legitimate point. Oleynik is nowhere near a European champion level. Its a legitimate point. Whom has Oleynik ever beaten that is a World class wrestler?

 

Are we supposed to all just sing praise songs to American wrestlers regardless of a situation? How can you not understand a lucky draw is nothing for the advancement of wrestling in an established wrestling country like America. You get a lucky draw and win. So what? Next time you will not win unless you again get a lucky draw.

 

The guy he just beat that you're whining about.

[TripNSweep 470]

European championships become a joke when a Pole places 2nd there due to a lucky draw and then places 17th at Aliev 2 months later.

 

Maybe they should have 2 different Europeans and World tourneys. One for established countries and one for developing countries kind of like DI and DII or DIII wrestling in USA. Then top 2 from a lower tourney can compete in a higher tourney. Because putting 3 or 4 top guys together and then letting someone else win in another half doesn't help established powers one bit. The best wrestlers sacrifice their lives and then they have to deal with this stuff for the sake of some African or Latin American or some French wrestler or some Polish wrestler.

 

I guess Cejudo got lucky with his draw in the 08 Olympics despite finishing in last place at worlds the year prior. Oh wait it was a conspiracy because some Russian got flattened by Japan in the semis.

[Tripster 0]

Of course Cejudo got a lucky draw. None of his opponents medaled at prior Worlds. Velikov won in 2006 but he was wrestling badly since then. The Japanese exploited his favorable draw and edged tough opponents who were exhausted after difficult matches.

 

Heck Kudukhov had to wrestle a World silver 1st match.

[Ryan 2]

Yeah, those damn wrestlers are so out of shape. I think all wrestlers should only have one match per day.

[Tripster 0]

Yeah, those damn wrestlers are so out of shape. I think all wrestlers should only have one match per day.

 

No, but when one wrestler has a World silver 1st match and another someone from Senegal that is a big difference with small breaks in between.

 

Two finalists from a prior year should not meet in early rounds let alone 1st match.

[Tripster 0]

By the way, at both Olympics Kudukhov had to wrestle World silver from a prior year 1st match. Is that a coincidence?

[AnklePicker 530]

Cejudo had a world champ first round of the Olympics.

[Tripster 0]

Not from the prior year. Cejudo's half had all the losers from the prior year.

[HuskyHero133 52]

A World champ is a World champ and Cejudo got one straight off the bat. Absurd to contend FILA tries to rig things in FAVOR of the US.

[DuckFor2 176]

Of course Cejudo got a lucky draw. None of his opponents medaled at prior Worlds. Velikov won in 2006 but he was wrestling badly since then. The Japanese exploited his favorable draw and edged tough opponents who were exhausted after difficult matches.

 

Heck Kudukhov had to wrestle a World silver 1st match.

clear evidence of trolling right here. are you sure none of his opponents medaled at prior worlds?

 

"None of his opponents medaled at prior Worlds"

[PRyan2012 343]

Varner and Cejudo is not a good comparison. Varner has proved in the past that he could do well at high level tournaments where Cejudo could not. Varner placed 5th in 09, 3rd in 11 and 1st in 12. And he placed 3rd at Yaragin in one of the most stacked weights ever and lost to a guy on the juice-Saidov. Did Varner get a lucky draw-yes but his past performances put him near the top of the world-at least 3rd behind russia and iran. I am an advocate of seeding. In no way should a guy like Gadisov be put in a situation like he had in London. BUt no fault to Varner he beat some pretty good guys but I would have ranked them at the time about 5th -10th in the world.

[Tripster 0]

My comparison is only to a Gold medal. Varner deserved a bronze but I see no proof he was the best in that weight under honest circumstances.

[Tripster 0]

By a prior year I mean 2007 in Cejudo's case. In international wrestling if you medal at Worlds but then have a bad result at Worlds and Euros you cannot be counted as tough until you win again something important. People peak and fall off. Only most recent results count.

 

Like for example Zadick and Pritzlaff. They medaled in 06 but then many people beat them and Zadick could not even qualify for 08 Olympics.

[MadMardigain 1,268]

Of course Cejudo got a lucky draw. None of his opponents medaled at prior Worlds. Velikov won in 2006 but he was wrestling badly since then. The Japanese exploited his favorable draw and edged tough opponents who were exhausted after difficult matches.

 

Heck Kudukhov had to wrestle a World silver 1st match.

 

But if some World/Olympic Champs only accomplished this by a lucky draw rather than skill, then it wouldn't be an issue to draw them early on since they weren't the best guys.

 

Man it's like an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, surrounded by mystery..

[Old_Marine_Wrestler 245]

Trip - back in 2000 when the bracket was rigged for Satiev, how'd you feel when he got worked by an Amnerican that wasn't even a college champion?

[VakAttack 2,701]

By a prior year I mean 2007 in Cejudo's case. In international wrestling if you medal at Worlds but then have a bad result at Worlds and Euros you cannot be counted as tough until you win again something important. People peak and fall off. Only most recent results count.

 

Like for example Zadick and Pritzlaff. They medaled in 06 but then many people beat them and Zadick could not even qualify for 08 Olympics.

 

So why are you whining about Kudukhov's draw? I mean, sure, he faced a world silver medalist, but GOmez only had the one medal anyway, and he took 20th the year before his silver, and 15th the year after at the Olympics. So he's actually secretly not tough. And then the Mongolian from 2008 only had a piddling bronze, which they give TWO of them, so they mean nothing, and the one silver, which we've already established is all luck. So really, Besik got some pretty sweet draws getting these nobodies who no longer had luck on their sides to hand them medals.

[tec87 349]

Of course Cejudo got a lucky draw. None of his opponents medaled at prior Worlds. Velikov won in 2006 but he was wrestling badly since then. The Japanese exploited his favorable draw and edged tough opponents who were exhausted after difficult matches.

 

Heck Kudukhov had to wrestle a World silver 1st match.

 

I love how the Japanese wrestler had a favorable draw.lol. Sure he started out with a wrestler from Senegal but then he had a wrestler from Turkey(Akgul won Silver at world's the next year 09 and was a 3 time Euro bronze medalist), then had Mansurov who was a 2time world champ and world bronze medalist, then rolled multi-time world medalist Kudukhov.

 

Sure Cejudo had a bit of an easier side but he still had a former world champ in the first match and Velikov made the world finals again after that olympics as well. His half of the bracket also had Yang Kyuong-Il of PRK who would win the world title the next year.

[Tripster 0]

But at that point the Turk was weak as is evident by his 7th place at junior Worlds just 2 weeks before. So the Japanese wrestler caught Mansurov and Kudukhov fresh while they were tired from real tough matches.

[spartak 15]

To prevent most of these lucky draw cases we need to go back to round robin and to wrestle all the weights every day, so wrestlers will have enough time to recuperate. There still few rules that stupid are left, but thanks God at least the worst one, I mean the scoring has gone!