Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
TripNSweep

Interesting about Grand Canyon moving up to D-I

Recommended Posts

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/colleges/articles/20130719arizona-state-president-michael-crow-says-forprofit-grand-canyon-does-not-belong-in-ncaa-division-i.html

 

The ASU president said he has instructed his athletic-department personnel not to schedule games in any sport against Grand Canyon.

 

“They’re a different sector,” Crow said. “We welcome competition … (but) it’s about what we want the NCAA to be.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/colleges/articles/20130719arizona-state-president-michael-crow-says-forprofit-grand-canyon-does-not-belong-in-ncaa-division-i.html

 

The ASU president said he has instructed his athletic-department personnel not to schedule games in any sport against Grand Canyon.

 

“They’re a different sector,” Crow said. “We welcome competition … (but) it’s about what we want the NCAA to be.”

 

 

all I can say is.....what a hypocrite! Does it really matter where the funding for education and athletics comes from? Crow is simply running scared that other non public schools will use the same financial model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't just asu. It's the PAC CEO group (presidents and chancellors).

 

http://arizonasports.com/118/1649222/Re ... Division-I

 

Profit is completely different than generating revenue to fund programs/research. Profit motive has no place in, and actually subverts, the educational/research process. I doubt the B1G CEO's attitude is different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the record, I think this has more to do with the E'Bannon Suit and the push to pay players than it does anything else. It is hard for the Pac-12 to claim it isn't a business with a for-profit school in the mix.

 

For the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with for profit schools. I think it is more transparent and allows the students and parents the chance to invest (LOPE). But, at the same time, I also don't think college athletes should be paid so there is a clash of ideologies here which is going to be an issue for all involved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny how ASU had no problem scheduling them in Basketball and Wrestling (and maybe some other sports) when they were Division-II when ASU didn't think they would have any problem beating them.

ASU probably wasn't competing for the same pool of athletes with a DII school, either.

 

With the move up, the competition is more than just on the playing field/court, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny how ASU had no problem scheduling them in Basketball and Wrestling (and maybe some other sports) when they were Division-II when ASU didn't think they would have any problem beating them.

 

This is an interesting point, but I still think it's worthwhile to try to discredit these shams of universities in any way possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're painting with an awfully wide brush. Not all for-profit colleges are the same. GCU has a campus, resident students, and, by the way, a wrestling team that is joining Division I.

 

 

The bottom line at GCU and any other for profit university is the bottom line. These places prey on Pell grants and offer little to no value in return (definitely not 40K worth). Would you give money to a for profit charity? How about get surgery from a doctor fresh out of a for profit medical school? Also, the push to D1 has everything to do with visibility of the basketball team, and if anything the presence of their wrestling team is likely detrimental for those roped into attending (A notable exception to this would be athletes unable to attend or pass classes at any other university due to academic or financial reasons, in which case the scholarship to GCU would be slightly better than nothing).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are pretty naive if you think it is that different at other schools.

 

As others have said go look at the salaries of tenured professors/Deans/Chancellors. 500,000+ for professors alone while opportunities for college athletes (wrestlers) are being slashed with no remorse. It is ALL about the money at public schools. I'm laughing at the "slightly" better than nothing comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Money is important for Universities, but at major research universities you will find that the vast majority of money the school brings in goes towards operating costs and infrastructure. Universities with medical centers spend huge amounts of money to maintain hospitals and research buildings. If you walk around the campuses of many top research universities, you will typically find hundreds of millions of dollars of construction projects going on at any given time. So it is all about the money, but running a University is a big business that requires a lot of money. It's not all going to line the pockets of employees. Also, much of the reported high salaries of faculty members is from some cherry picked data. Deans and chancellors do indeed get paid obscene amounts. Regular professors....not so much. Most people in academia can attest to the fact that they could have made a lot more money in the private sector. Your average professor is underpaid, not overpaid. You'll find exceptions, but often the details are not reported. For example, you might find a professor at a medical school that makes 500,000, but if you look closely, you'll find that they are "Professor of Neurosurgery", so that money is coming from operating on brains. Many board members that don't really do anything are overpaid however. Despite this mismanagement of funds, however, most of the money does not go to individuals but goes into the University itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are pretty naive if you think it is that different at other schools.

 

As others have said go look at the salaries of tenured professors/Deans/Chancellors. 500,000+ for professors alone while opportunities for college athletes (wrestlers) are being slashed with no remorse. It is ALL about the money at public schools. I'm laughing at the "slightly" better than nothing comment.

I can't buy stock in UNL, UNC, ASU, PSU, OkSU, etc. Perhaps Carl Ichan would like to run a college...and squeeze what he can from it.

 

Go look at salaries of Red Cross, most Churches, UNICEF, government employees and administrators.

Because an organization pays employees doesn't mean it is a for profit venture. They are not generating and distributing profit (interest or dividends).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dsnc is dead on with 100% of his post. One thing he omitted is that another thing universities do is hoard money to build their endowments. While this is definitely a negative to some degree, as the money isn't spent on students, it is undoubtedly better than taking this money and using it to line the pockets of investors. So what you see is at many public and private universities, the "profit" goes to building an endowment, while at places like GCU, Devry, Phoenix online, the money goes to the investors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dsnc is dead on with 100% of his post. One thing he omitted is that another thing universities do is hoard money to build their endowments. While this is definitely a negative to some degree, as the money isn't spent on students, it is undoubtedly better than taking this money and using it to line the pockets of investors. So what you see is at many public and private universities, the "profit" goes to building an endowment, while at places like GCU, Devry, Phoenix online, the money goes to the investors.

Endowments aren't piles of money hidden in a cave. They are the single most important factor producing stability in a university since states have basically gotten out of supporting higher education in the manner of forty or fifty years ago. The bigger the endowment, the stronger the university.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The bigger the endowment, the stronger the university.

In general, this is correct. Here's a fairly current list of the top 20 endowments by schools. Not too shabby of a list.

 

- Harvard University, $30.4 billion

- Yale University, $19.3 billion

- University of Texas system, $18.2 billion

- Stanford University, $17 billion

- Princeton University, $16.9 billion

- MIT, $10.1 billion

- University of Michigan, $7.6 billion

- Columbia University, $6.5 billion

- Texas A&M University system, $7.6 billion

- Northwestern University, $7.1 billion

- University of Pennsylvania, $6.7 billion

- University of Chicago, $6.5 billion

- University of Notre Dame, $6.3 billion

- University of California, $5.9 billion

- Duke University, $5.5 billion

- Emory University, $5.4 billion

- Washington University in St. Louis, $5.2 billion

- Cornell University, $4.9 billion

- University of Virginia, $4.7 billion

- Rice University $4.4 billion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah. They're not in it for the money....

 

I guess it's the different in my eyes between being honest about the motive or not.

 

Employees at all Universities already go out looking for kids (often higher paying out of state kids) to come to spend upwards of $40,000+ a year for 'basic' tuition with no extra expenses.

 

Again, this is a new Division 1 wrestling program. Even if you don't like the financial setup of the institution, its still the first totally new (as in not just resurrected) D1 program in god knows how long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're painting with an awfully wide brush. Not all for-profit colleges are the same. GCU has a campus, resident students, and, by the way, a wrestling team that is joining Division I.

 

 

The bottom line at GCU and any other for profit university is the bottom line. These places prey on Pell grants and offer little to no value in return (definitely not 40K worth). Would you give money to a for profit charity? How about get surgery from a doctor fresh out of a for profit medical school? Also, the push to D1 has everything to do with visibility of the basketball team, and if anything the presence of their wrestling team is likely detrimental for those roped into attending (A notable exception to this would be athletes unable to attend or pass classes at any other university due to academic or financial reasons, in which case the scholarship to GCU would be slightly better than nothing).

 

There's a "high tech" college near my house that gets tons of kids with that every year. Saddles them with huge loan amounts for what's essentially a worthless degree. I used to work with a guy who had a BA degree from there and he was unable to do much with it and was trying to beg ASU to let some of his credits transfer so he wouldn't have to start all over for a 4 year degree that was actually worth something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're painting with an awfully wide brush. Not all for-profit colleges are the same. GCU has a campus, resident students, and, by the way, a wrestling team that is joining Division I.

 

 

The bottom line at GCU and any other for profit university is the bottom line. These places prey on Pell grants and offer little to no value in return (definitely not 40K worth). Would you give money to a for profit charity? How about get surgery from a doctor fresh out of a for profit medical school? Also, the push to D1 has everything to do with visibility of the basketball team, and if anything the presence of their wrestling team is likely detrimental for those roped into attending (A notable exception to this would be athletes unable to attend or pass classes at any other university due to academic or financial reasons, in which case the scholarship to GCU would be slightly better than nothing).

 

There's a "high tech" college near my house that gets tons of kids with that every year. Saddles them with huge loan amounts for what's essentially a worthless degree. I used to work with a guy who had a BA degree from there and he was unable to do much with it and was trying to beg ASU to let some of his credits transfer so he wouldn't have to start all over for a 4 year degree that was actually worth something.

One minor difference...Grand Canyon University is a regionally-accredited university, accredited by the North Central Association's Higher Learning Commission, the same accrediting body that accredits Arizona State University, and one of the six regional accrediting bodies across the country. (the regional bodies are generally considered higher-tier, for lack of a better word, than the national bodies, and a degree from a nationally-accredited school is often considered equivalent to a degree from Schlotsky's Deli)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some data on actual graduate data for some schools, including a few for-profit schools:

 

School Ave Starting Salary Average Mid Career Salary

Edinboro 36,400 62,100

Central Michigan 39,200 63,500

UT-Chattanooga 39,500 63,600

*ITT Tech Inst 42,000 61,500

Cal St- Bakersfield 42,000 62,800

*Grand Canyon 42,000 64,500

Iowa 42,100 79,600

North Carlonia 42,800 79,400

Nebraska 43,300 70,500

Michigan State 44,300 78,000

*Devry 44,600 71,800

Arizona State 45,000 78,500

Penn State-UP 48,600 83,000

Harvard 50,700 111,000

Lehigh 56,900 118,000

*For-Profit

 

You should note that not all for-profit schools are the same. Some are created quickly without much thought and are designed to exploit students but they quickly get a bad reputation and eventually close. There are many schools that have been for-profit for many many years. John D. Rockefeller, and many other successful people were trained at for profit colleges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SHP,

 

That may be true about Grand Canyon (likely is), but they still do things I don't agree with. As far as borderline predatory student recruitment, etc. Academically they are above places like Collins College and Brookline College because those schools are a little more specialized and GCU is more of a liberal arts and traditional college. It troubles me that GCU answers to shareholders with a vested financial interest. The fact public state schools are held accountable to the public is something that I agree with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...