Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jstock

More men's classes cut for Rio

Recommended Posts

Why 6? I think just one makes the most sense. No weight limit, no gender differentiation. Each country enters their best wrestler.

 

And actually this is how we should be operating at the NCAA collegiate level too. One man teams would allow all schools to field a wrestling team.

 

Duals would last no more than 7 minutes.

 

Wrestle - offs for the one spot would be awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am a huge Greco-lover. But it needs to be cut. Olympics wants equality? Having two mens styles and one women's aint it. Cut greco, eliminate the two bronzes, and lets get 10 and 10 in FS.

 

So simple a caveman could do it. F'n A, people!

 

You seriously think they would have 10 weight classes in FS if GR is cut. Guess what, they would still only have six weight classes in FS. I'm not opposed to having FS only if it meant more weight classes, but it doesn't. First GR would be cut. Then it would be only a matter of time that Wrestling would be cut from the Olympics altogether. Sorry, that's not the answer.

 

 

Sorry bud, but it IS the answer. If the IOC is limiting the AMOUNT of Gold Medals/Medal Count they are giving out per sport, then yes, even FILA would be able to draw the conclusion that if one sport (Greco) is dropped, then weight classes WILL be added. 6 is an arbitrary number WE created because we don't want to drop a style. I'm sorry guys, but the IOC wants EQUALITY and 12 Golds in Mens WRESTLING and 6 in Greco is NOT IT.

 

Why would dropping a style make Wrestling cut from the Olympics altogether? That's an asinine comment to make... We HAVE ALREADY been dropped guy! Weight classes are NOT our problem. It's a whole set of other reasons, with equality among them. At the same time, FILA is not being representative of its people, and the sad fact is, it never has. We wouldn't even be in this position if it weren't for our arrogance! It won't happen, but Greco SHOULD be dropped. I don't want it to, but hey, 6 weight classes is NOT the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay, cutting back on weight classes sucks. But for those who say blow off the IOC and wrestling in the Olympics......

 

..... that will hugely impact collegiate wrestling programs, and likely HS level wrestling programs as well. When budget cuts come, or Title IX considerations come into play; wrestling has always had history, and a legacy of being in the Olympics. These have been at least talking points for justification to continue the sport, for those administrators, who know nothing about the sport (most of them). Take that rationale away, and give an AD a tight budget, or Title IX issues, and without the historical background, and/or Olympic sport credibility, then wrestling is a pretty easy target in any geographical area without a wrestling tradition (most of the United States).

 

Be careful for what you wish for..... cutting off ones nose to spite their face is never good tactics.

Evidence suggests otherwise. Men's gymnastics is very prominent in the Olympics and we are down to maybe a bit over a dozen D1 teams. Baseball/softball was removed, but there are about 300 D1 baseball teams. NCAA/university admins don't care, except for how their budgets and FB/BB are effected by any particular non revenue sport.

 

We would be excising a malignancy, not simply making gesture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really didn't want to get involved in this topic, but it makes my blood boil.

 

Just wondering how many female wrestlers there are (on all levels) around the world vs the number of male wrestlers. Guess that's irrelevant to the IOC and FILA.

 

What about the thousands, maybe millions of girls around the world that play fastpitch softball? They all had their biggest and best dreams CRUSHED by the IOC a few years back. Where's the "inclusiveness", "diversity", and "equality" there?

 

First Title IX, then FILA cutting 10 weight classes to 7, and now the IOC cutting to 6 weight classes? (And sorry, I don't buy their lame excuses that come under the guise of equality, or medal limits. The right people in charge could EASILY make this a win-win for all involved.)

 

International wrestling is one of the "jewels" of all athletic competition. Look at the comraderie and respect between wrestlers from all over the world (i.e. Iran, USA, Russia). Our great sport is being abused and ruined by people that probably never wrestled.

 

Once again, the history of mankind continues - big centralized authorities/governments dictating their agenda over the will of the people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ccrider -

 

Uh okay..... I see you have already given up. I get that. I long ago went from a person whose life (and most of my discretionary money) revolved around the sport, to just a casual fan. I was just making an observation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really didn't want to get involved in this topic, but it makes my blood boil.

 

Just wondering how many female wrestlers there are (on all levels) around the world vs the number of male wrestlers. Guess that's irrelevant to the IOC and FILA.

 

What about the thousands, maybe millions of girls around the world that play fastpitch softball? They all had their biggest and best dreams CRUSHED by the IOC a few years back. Where's the "inclusiveness", "diversity", and "equality" there?

 

First Title IX, then FILA cutting 10 weight classes to 7, and now the IOC cutting to 6 weight classes? (And sorry, I don't buy their lame excuses that come under the guise of equality, or medal limits. The right people in charge could EASILY make this a win-win for all involved.)

 

International wrestling is one of the "jewels" of all athletic competition. Look at the comraderie and respect between wrestlers from all over the world (i.e. Iran, USA, Russia). Our great sport is being abused and ruined by people that probably never wrestled.

 

Once again, the history of mankind continues - big centralized authorities/governments dictating their agenda over the will of the people.

 

 

Moderator removed my post regarding the need to drop women's wrestling. Better be careful!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Three things:

 

1) We are lucky Stan posts here. He doesn't have to. It's probably not a good idea to badger him.

 

2) Adding women's wrestling is one of the best things FILA has done. Women have their own divisions in sports such as taekwondo, judo, boxing, and weightlifting, not to mention the more popular Olympic sports like track and swimming. Not having women's wrestling would make wrestling look really backward.

 

3) Trying to get more equality between women's and men's wrestling is right thing to do. However, if 18 is the limit on gold medals, I think it's pretty obvious freestyle or Greco has to go. FILA has already advised that a style should go.

 

Six weight classes per style is not enough. Because women's wrestling is freestyle, I think it makes the most sense to drop Greco as an Olympic sport. FILA would still hold world championships for Greco. That would allow for 9 weight classes for women's wrestling, and nine for freestyle.

 

Greco is done as an Olympic sport. The question is, Is freestyle and women's wrestling also done?

 

On your first point, I couldn't disagree more. I am about as lucky that Stan posts here as I am lucky that the fate of our sport is in FILA's hands. Take that for what you make of it.

 

Stan's job is to serve wrestling worldwide. He should be actively engaged in discussions almost religiously to help gather ideas to push our sport forward. He's no more above it than any of us, and since he has input, it's even more important for him to be actively involved.

 

FILA thinks wrestling exists to provide them with power and title. I think FILA exists to serve the people of wrestling worldwide, and at that they have failed miserably beyond description.

 

How did you see that post? I don't see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really didn't want to get involved in this topic, but it makes my blood boil.

 

Just wondering how many female wrestlers there are (on all levels) around the world vs the number of male wrestlers. Guess that's irrelevant to the IOC and FILA.

 

What about the thousands, maybe millions of girls around the world that play fastpitch softball? They all had their biggest and best dreams CRUSHED by the IOC a few years back. Where's the "inclusiveness", "diversity", and "equality" there?

 

First Title IX, then FILA cutting 10 weight classes to 7, and now the IOC cutting to 6 weight classes? (And sorry, I don't buy their lame excuses that come under the guise of equality, or medal limits. The right people in charge could EASILY make this a win-win for all involved.)

 

International wrestling is one of the "jewels" of all athletic competition. Look at the comraderie and respect between wrestlers from all over the world (i.e. Iran, USA, Russia). Our great sport is being abused and ruined by people that probably never wrestled.

 

Once again, the history of mankind continues - big centralized authorities/governments dictating their agenda over the will of the people.

 

 

Moderator removed my post regarding the need to drop women's wrestling. Better be careful!

 

 

I have nothing against women's wrestling or women's athletics in general. I was actually defending women's fastpitch softball.

 

IMHO, their game is great and should definitely be included in the Olympics. With the appropriate advertisings and promotions, the USA women's softball team would get huge Olympic TV ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ccrider -

 

Uh okay..... I see you have already given up. I get that. I long ago went from a person whose life (and most of my discretionary money) revolved around the sport, to just a casual fan. I was just making an observation.

Yup. Although not in the same universe of actual seriousness, I advocate giving up in the manner the colonists gave up on British rule. Actually leave and promote the sport. It's either that, or continue helping its competitive demise in order to be an ornament on the grand Christmas tree celebrating commercialism (aka: the Olympics).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anytime you see the phrase "in order to create more equity" then you know you have once again been reduced/screwed for the sake of the women. They are slowly but surely eliminating the thing that makes wrestling the "equitable" sport it is - weight classes.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind having women's wrestling, but this is truely incredible. I would really like to see some numbers on the number of participants in wrestling for women/men, then decide what is "equitable". If they have the same level of participation as men on the lower levels, then let them have the same number of medal representation at the Olympics/World Championships. Wouldn't that be "fair". Man I hate that word.

 

We should still participate in the watered down Olympics, but we should have our own full blown, 10 weight class World Championships. We should put more emphasis on the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS! Make it a big deal. You get to have those every year!

 

Then again, if they eliminate wrestling all together they can add more ribbon twirling, sanchronized(sp), horse riding events. I digress to the point of wanting to puke..........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep that would be the fairest way to go. Only one weight class. Let them rip each other apart.

 

Better yet, FILA could introduce tag team wrestling, this would be sure to be a hit with the IOC. :lol:

 

mspart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard this news while at the NWCA convention, and I was sickened. Those of you who recognize my login name probably know where I'm heading. A few posters understand the real issue, like Red and 2td3nf, but the problem started when women's wrestling started. Incidentally John Stossel did a report on Title 9 last night revealing how it has wrecked men's minor sports (wrestling mentioned); how D-1 gymnastics fell from 117 schools in 1982 to a mere 17 today. This "fair' way of giving women the same status as men in wrestling is the most pathetic raping of men's wrestling. AP, you sarcastically say fairest because of its short existence, which IS the problem. How can anyone think something that's been around since the original Games, shouldn't be preserved. How can any true wrestling fan who knows the history of our great sport even consider dropping Greco to preserve women's wresting. The history for women is one generation; one generation vs thousands of years.

I'm just getting started; Mr Battle, featured speaker at the convention who broke the news to us, told me later after his message, that conservative numbers for men wrestlers in the world totaled 10 million, while the number of females was 200,000. If those figures are close, then 2% of the world's wrestlers are women, yet they will represent 33.33% of all wresting medals. Fair?

On another point, many of the wrestling Muslim countries have no women wrestlers, so the representation by numbers of nations competing at the Games is noticeably less as well.

Like many, I too am appalled by this FILA cave-in job to the IOC, but I am also concerned by the pervasive way that PC diversity has made its way into the minds of so many posters, who don't see why this travesty has happened, and even push for the removal of Greco. My wife agrees with me 100%; she has been with me to more than one World Championship, but she doesn't think it's fair what's happening, and she was a good athlete. To her, Title 9 and the desolation of men's wrestling weight classes, to appease the numbers for women, is just plain wrong.

Last personal note, after the Atlanta Games, my interest in Greco has waned considerably, and frankly, even elite women's wrestling is on par with mediocre HS wrestling, so with these changes I will truly have interest in only 5 wt classes, since most freestyle hwts don't really have great technique. I loved watching wrestling in the 70's and 80 and early 90's, but I honestly prefer watching the NCAAs more today. The aforementioned years on the international level were so much better than the NCAAs; Toledo was awesome, along with the Games. Now only a memory (and a lot of video to preserve it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just trying to let you know that an argument that utilizes participation numbers as a means to justify getting rid of women's wrestling makes you look ignorant and stupid. Women's wrestling isn't the problem. It's FILA!!!! It's blatantly obvious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a statistical guy myself, I am fully aware statistics can tell you only part of the story and can be used to tell only one side of it, especially when leaving out tangible variables.

 

Men have wrestled forever and have over 100 years of World and Olympic Championships.

Women have wrestled in THREE olympics and have only 27 years of World Championships.

 

The statistical point about comparisons of the number of wrestlers is flawed because one gender's never been prevented from wrestling, while the other is growing steadily after being held back for decades. Do I think women would be wrestling in equal numbers as men had they started at the same time? No, but the gap in looking at population percentages would be considerably different.

 

Then there's the international cultures and large countries with nearly a billion people (like India and China, for example) that skew any population data because for generations, their women weren't allowed to do much outside of cook and have babies.

 

Participation numbers are inherently flawed. So a few people on message boards agree with you. Like I said on the other thread -- vocal minority. Just because some people on wrestling forums agree with you doesn't make you right or even close to right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JB - what do you think the ratio would be had women been given more time to get involved in wrestling?

 

I think it would be higher than it is now... but not close to 33% of the #'s with men included. Not even just in the US or other countries where women have been independent members of society for a long time (unlike some of the Islamic based/Asian cultures).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So people are arguing that the stats are what they are because women's wrestling is a fairly new sport. Well if that's the case, perhaps we should give it time and see if it develops to a point where it is worthy of inclusion in the Olympics??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really two separate issues (women's participation numbers and FILA/IOC incompetence). It's not the women's fault that they are taking away mens weight classes. It's clear that what's best for wrestling doesn't fit with the mold that the IOC wants wrestling to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's really two separate issues (women's participation numbers and FILA/IOC incompetence). It's not the women's fault that they are taking away mens weight classes. It's clear that what's best for wrestling doesn't fit with the mold that the IOC wants wrestling to be.

 

Yes I do not believe the women would want mens wrestling degraded in any way.

 

They are just the competitors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said dsnc, and I point out that I never suggested that women shouldn't be allowed to wrestle; my point is that women's wrestling should not have any effect on men, and only if it meant an entire style be eliminated, then you must preserve the traditional past. Men's wrestling deserves a better fate, but FILA/IOC serve as an international Title 9.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...