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RED

Who is the moderator of this site?

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Then stop blaming and insulting the women.

 

I'm not the moderator, but it's pretty clear your angst towards one particular group of WRESTLERS reeks. I guess the dreams of our little girls who desire to wrestle isn't worth your time. I'm not advocating the cut of the weights, but I'm also not going to be in the camp who flippantly hates on women's wrestling. You don't have to like it, sir, but guess what, it's here to stay and you'll have to deal with it.

 

There's other places for hateful anti-women's wrestling remarks.

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You are a self righteous clown. There is no angst, no hatred. I merely do not believe that women should be wrestling. I do not believe it is natural. And at the end of the day, I believe that men's wrestling suffers because of it's existence. I am entitled to my opinion, as is everyone else on this board. And you might be surprised how many agree with me. It is absolute BS that my posts were pulled because the ideology did not conform with that of the moderator.

 

"Dreams of our little girls..." Please, give me a break with your histrionics.

 

So Jason, who is the moderator?

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If you are in search of the moderator, themat.com might be the first place you check ...

 

But there's probably a story about women's wrestling on there, so browse carefully.

 

You also might be surprised on how many people disagree with you mightily ... you are in the vocal minority.

 

Don't like it, don't watch ... but they are athletes and they earned their place contrary to whatever belief drives your anti-women's wrestling agenda.

 

Signed,

The Clown

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It is not just this site. Whenever I on the weather channel forum and I post how women's wrestling is responsible for global warming my posts get deleted. Don't even get me started on the Jack the Ripper forum. You make a few observations on how Tricia Saunders has never been adequately investigated as a suspect and they act like you are crazy.

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This is not the time to be divided. We need to come together and stand up for the sport of wrestling. The men and women competing in this sport should have a chance to compete fairly, whether it's FS, GR, or Women's wrestling. We need to put pressure on those who are in charge to help our sport rather than hurt it.

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RED

I have been trying to stay out of a war of words with you simply because I know it will do no good given your narrow minded view on the subject. So I will be as diplomatic as possible right now. The reason your topics were deleted is because they posed an ignorant and down right disrespectful remarks towards women. It has nothing to do with you not agreeing with my opinions. The fact is women work just as long and hard as men do in our sport and believe it or not we have some damn good wrestlers in our country who are women. If you would take the time to remove your biased goggles you would see that the level of excellence in women's wrestling is rising faster than ever. So THAT sir is why your posts were deleted.

 

Also, its probably not wise to start calling out the moderator. In case you were not able to grasp it, I am the moderator.

 

Anything else I can help you with today?

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Mr. Immel,

 

I am far from ignorant, I just have very different opinions on the matter than you. No hate, nothing of the sort. I don't know if you got a chance to read Fullnelson's post on the other thread. He agrees with my position and states his position in a far more more eloquent manner than me. He has also provided some very tangible statistics to further his position.

 

Seriously, I could care less how hard the women work. It's not so much the effort; it's the end result. That is the way it goes in all sports. The hardest worker doesn't necessarily win the match. As for calling you out? You don't think someone deserves an explanation when a post is deleted that does not conflict with board policy?

 

I've pasted Fullnelson's post below. Given the numbers cited, can you honestly tell me you believe women should be equally represented (much less, represented) in the Olympics?

 

Fullnelson's post:

 

I heard this news while at the NWCA convention, and I was sickened. Those of you who recognize my login name probably know where I'm heading. A few posters understand the real issue, like Red and 2td3nf, but the problem started when women's wrestling started. Incidentally John Stossel did a report on Title 9 last night revealing how it has wrecked men's minor sports (wrestling mentioned); how D-1 gymnastics fell from 117 schools in 1982 to a mere 17 today. This "fair' way of giving women the same status as men in wrestling is the most pathetic raping of men's wrestling. AP, you sarcastically say fairest because of its short existence, which IS the problem. How can anyone think something that's been around since the original Games, shouldn't be preserved. How can any true wrestling fan who knows the history of our great sport even consider dropping Greco to preserve women's wresting. The history for women is one generation; one generation vs thousands of years.

I'm just getting started; Mr Battle, featured speaker at the convention who broke the news to us, told me later after his message, that conservative numbers for men wrestlers in the world totaled 10 million, while the number of females was 200,000. If those figures are close, then 2% of the world's wrestlers are women, yet they will represent 33.33% of all wresting medals. Fair?

On another point, many of the wrestling Muslim countries have no women wrestlers, so the representation by numbers of nations competing at the Games is noticeably less as well.

Like many, I too am appalled by this FILA cave-in job to the IOC, but I am also concerned by the pervasive way that PC diversity has made its way into the minds of so many posters, who don't see why this travesty has happened, and even push for the removal of Greco. My wife agrees with me 100%; she has been with me to more than one World Championship, but she doesn't think it's fair what's happening, and she was a good athlete. To her, Title 9 and the desolation of men's wrestling weight classes, to appease the numbers for women, is just plain wrong.

Last personal note, after the Atlanta Games, my interest in Greco has waned considerably, and frankly, even elite women's wrestling is on par with mediocre HS wrestling, so with these changes I will truly have interest in only 5 wt classes, since most freestyle hwts don't really have great technique. I loved watching wrestling in the 70's and 80 and early 90's, but I honestly prefer watching the NCAAs more today. The aforementioned years on the international level were so much better than the NCAAs; Toledo was awesome, along with the Games. Now only a memory (and a lot of video to preserve it).

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You don't believe it's "natural?" What the f is that supposed to mean? You need to step out of your cave and welcome life in the 21st century.

 

This is absolutely NOT the fault of the women who wrestle.

 

You are very funny!! I've enjoyed all your posts on this matter. :D :lol:

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LOL at people being all politically correct and acting like they're Sir Lancelot defending the honor of women's wrestling.

 

Much like the rest of society, militant political correctness has permeated into this sport as well.

 

You can't even hint that women's wrestling has negatively impacted men's wrestling without the politically correct hustlers shouting you down for being "sexist", "misogynisitic", or any of their other guilt-trip buzzwords and phrases.

 

Oh sure they claim you have a "right to your opinion" to make themselves sound like they're the progressive, tolerant good guys and you're the primitive knuckle-dragging neanderthal, but it's easy to see right through their facade: They will only tolerate you as long as you agree with their opinion on the matter.

 

They're cutting 2 of the men's weights at the Olympics while adding 2 weights to the women's. If you don't realize that negatively affects men's wrestling then there's no getting through to you because you've drank the politically correct kool-aid.

 

But it's more likely that you do realize the negative impact but refuse to admit it so you're not labelled sexist, misogynistic, or any of the other labels you put on others who disagree with you in order to shame them into either shutting up or conforming with your opinion.

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The problem with the above statements about women's wrestling is that it implies that the desire for women to compete in wrestling has somehow negatively affected mens wrestling. Forget political correctness.....this is just plain wrong. Women's wrestling should have no impact on men's wrestling. Note the emphasis on should. The problem has nothing to do with women who want to wrestle, but everything to do with the IOCs interpretation of what Olympic wrestling should be, coupled with FILAs response. The problem is FILA and IOC, not women. Also, if women's wrestling was abolished, not only would there be a number of disappointed women, but wrestling would be immediately dropped from the Olympics. All the other sports have women's divisions. Why should wrestling be the only exception? Being the oldest sport does not mean it also has to be the stupidest.

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The problem with the above statements about women's wrestling is that it implies that the desire for women to compete in wrestling has somehow negatively affected mens wrestling. Forget political correctness.....this is just plain wrong. Women's wrestling should have no impact on men's wrestling. Note the emphasis on should. The problem has nothing to do with women who want to wrestle, but everything to do with the IOCs interpretation of what Olympic wrestling should be, coupled with FILAs response. The problem is FILA and IOC, not women. Also, if women's wrestling was abolished, not only would there be a number of disappointed women, but wrestling would be immediately dropped from the Olympics. All the other sports have women's divisions. Why should wrestling be the only exception? Being the oldest sport does not mean it also has to be the stupidest.

Great post.

 

Part of the problem with wrestling is that we've always acted like the best wrestlers make the best leaders. Part of it is Gable, because he WAS a great wrestler and coach and ambassador. That might be the exception. When the NBA is dealing with the IOC, they don't send Michael Jordan..they send David Stern. When you look at the good, successful ventures in wrestling whether it is Beat the Streets or Flowrestling it isn't the elite wrestler making it happen, it is the smart and motivated. The most important people in UFC aren't Silva and Jones, it is White and Jackson. Id rather see the folks from Beat the Streets or Titan-Mercury arguing on our behalf. Great wrestlers are used to a fair, transparent fight. That is not what we are dealing with.

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All the other sports have women's divisions. Why should wrestling be the only exception?

 

So let me get this straight. Wrestlers seem to always pride themselves on being "different" than other sports (individuality, toughness, intensity of training, etc) but now you're turning it around and using the "why should we be different" argument?

 

Being the oldest sport does not mean it also has to be the stupidest.

 

Oh so now wrestling's the "stupidest" because we're drawing an (accurate) relationship between the inclusion of woman's wrestling and the progressive loss of weight classes throughout the years for men's wrestling?

 

Since you brought up the "why should we be different" argument, riddle me this: Have other men's sports suffered as many losses when the women's counterpart was included? Did men's soccer teams go from 11 players per side down to 9, then down to 7, etc when women's soccer was included? Did they keep cutting men's track events every few year while increasing women's track events? Did they keep removing men's swimming events and keep increasing the number of women's swimming events?

 

What you have here is straight up inequality with men's weight classes getting cut every few years while they increase the women's weight classes. Then you have people actually defending the inequality by hiding behind political correctness and criticizing those who speak up about what's going on.

 

Remember the old adage: He who defends the minority (women in this case) comes out looking like a hero, while he who defends the majority comes out looking like a villain, even if defending the minority creates inequality for the majority.

 

In other words, "Perception is everything, reality is secondary", which in today's society translates into "Political correctness is more important than the truth."

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DF, you are getting your facts correct but missing the conclusion. If soccer, track and so on HAD lost spots...that would suggest a gender problem. Since they did not, yet wrestling did, that suggests the problem is about wrestling. This is about a complete lack of respect and lack of regard for wrestling. Women's wrestling is not and should not go away any more than women's soccer or track are. So the questions is wrestling as a whole. (I would prefer the discussion simply be freestyle wrestling, but that is a different debate. )

 

As Coach Boone said, if we don't come together we will be destroyed. Making it about the women is short sided to the point of being suicidal n

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As Coach Boone said, if we don't come together we will be destroyed. Making it about the women is short sided to the point of being suicidal n

 

You may be right, only time will tell. But it would be dishonest to ignore the fact these problems started when women's wrestling was included. Men's wrestling had been around for centuries, and other than the rule changes once in a while, it was doing alright since the first Olympiads. But then you gotta include the womenzzz cuz feewlings might get hurt if they're not allowed to wrestle like the guys even it that means men's weights gotta get cut cuz that's the politically correct thing to do.

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But as you correctly pointed out, this (gender equality) had already happened in other sports without repercussion. And sports have been cut before, even sports like baseball. It is politics and it is money. If the IOC thought people would watch they would have 20 weight classes.

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DF, the reason those other sports haven't lose spots are because of two things.......money and leadership. Wrestling right now has neither. As to the money angle, you think for one second that sports like swimming, or track and field, which are some of the biggest draws at the Olympics, were going to have spots cut because of women? No way! The inclusion of women simply means more money. Wrestling on the other hand brings in no money. This, coupled with the inept leadership of FILA, allows the IOC to simply cut wrestling spots to free up more medals for things like women's BMX biking, which I'm sure brings in far more money than wrestling. It's wrong to say the problem is women. Not only does that sound ridiculous and like something from 100 years ago, but it's really not true. Men's gymnastics remains popular at the Olympics despite women. Heck, so does men's figure skating. As I have said before, the sport of wrestling just doesn't fit the mold of what the current IOC leadership imagines it to be. In combination with absurdly inept leadership in FILA, this is a terrible combination.

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False

 

We started losing weight classes before women's wrestling was granted Olympic sport status. So no, they didn't start when women's wrestling came around

 

False

 

Jason, you mentioned on another topic that women's wrestling has been around for 3 Olympics and 27 World Championships. A couple of points here, first of all the first Worlds for women occurred in 1989 when 6 countries showed up in Switzerland (US had 3 wrestlers). I was there, and for the next few years it only slowly grew, but it grew enough to start consideration for insertion to the Games. This is when the decision to cut back on men's weight classes was made to include women. To appease the IOC, FILA gave in to the cut due to the IOC's mandate of a total number of weight classes allowed in the Olympics.

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