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Junior World Championships

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by NJDan » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:55 am

 

How come Themat.com is so far behind the message boards in posting the results???

 

Here is your answer, Gary Abbott's blog from today:

 

 

By Gary Abbott USA Wrestling

08/16/2013

 

Saturday, August 17 - You can always tell when freestyle is in town. Because our U.S. team often includes some athletes from the major college programs, there are always a few college coaches in the mix when they compete. I was running around working the women’s event in the warmup area, when somebody grabs me. It was Terry Brands. Iowa has two kids on the freestyle team, Thomas Gilman and Sam Brooks (both who wrestle Sunday). Terry is here to help his athletes, and support the USA team. This morning, I saw Mike Grey of the Cornell staff on the arena floor. His younger brother Mark is wrestling today, and will start his college career with Cornell when he returns from here. Mark Grey was fifth at the Junior Worlds two years ago while still in high school, and followed his brother to compete for the Big Red. Of course, with Mike it is more than just as a college coach, but also as a family member. Their older brother John Grey, Jr. is here too, as I bumped into him on the elevator the other night. John is a coach with Blair, and is a top developmental coach working with Team New Jersey. The Greys are very supportive of Mark, who is a good kid and one heck-of-a freestyle wrestler.

 

The freestyle staff is led by Assistant National Freestyle Coach Bill Zadick, who is on the same European journey as I am. On Monday, Bill and I will head for Serbia for another week of action at the Cadet Worlds. I always enjoy doing these events will Bill around, who is one of the good people in our sport. Bill has one of the best freestyle coaches in the nation working with the team, Sean Bormet of the Cliff Keen WC (and on the staff at Michigan). Sean has done amazing things with age-group wrestlers, first with Overtime in Illinois, and now with the Senior freestylers training up in Ann Arbor. Our Junior freestyle team is in great hands this week.

 

Rode over to the arena with Alex Dieringer in my row on the bus. I asked him a few questions about being at Oklahoma State, where he is already on his way to a strong college career. We talked a bit about his head coach John Smith, the greatest freestyle wrestler in USA history. I was impressed with Dieringer’s knowledge of wrestling history, especially about his coach. Young athletes who have a sense of the sport’s history have a big advantage over those just locked in the present. With the internet, and all of the video and wrestling information readily available to the world, it is much easier to know about wrestling’s history. The world’s oldest sport is always changing, but there are some amazing things that young athletes can learn by studying the stars of the past.

 

Tonight’s blog will focus on wrestling mostly. That is what you write about when your team does a great job. And let me tell you a fact. When the U.S. team performs well at a major event like the Junior World Championships, the communications staff has some very long nights. And you know, that is OK, because their success give you extra energy and motivation. You want to do a good job for the team.

 

By now, you probably heard that Kyle Snyder won a gold medal at the Junior Worlds in freestyle, that Alex Dieringer won a silver and that Mark Grey placed fifth. That was a tremendous day for the United States, which sits squarely in second place in the standings behind Russia after the first of the two days. This did not happen by accident. This talented team came in here very well prepared and wrestled very sharp. The morning session ended with the USA holding an 8-1 record. When the day was over, the team record was 11-4 against the best wrestlers in the world. Quite impressive.

 

So, it was a busy time for me today. Our Team Leader had some assignments with the last group of guys weighing in, so I had to do most of the video by myself today. And of course we had 15 matches. There was only one time which I was holding two video cameras at once. And during the medal ceremonies, I was shooting both the video camera and the still camera at the same time. Luckily I got good enough stuff to use for the website and for the TV show later this week (I hope).

 

I had to grab interviews with our athletes and coaches after their medal ceremonies, although the young women who were drug testing volunteers tried to tell our guys they had to immediately go to drug testing. I had to politely tell them that was not true, and they they could have time for an interview first. Alex Dieringer stayed a little longer so I could shoot Kyle Snyder’s award stand shots. Once I finished with Alex, I had to grab Kyle from his drug testing escort so I could get that interview on time. Then I had Bill Zadick and Mark Grey to interview. Of course when that is done, we have to write the story, crunch and post the videos, put up the pairings for tomorrow, send out emails to hometowns, send tweets and make Facebook postings, and of course write this blog. Somewhere in the middle of that we had to flag down a cab to go back to the hotel, which was an adventure in itself.

 

I am just finishing up, hours later, sitting on a coach in the corner of the second floor mezzanine of the hotel, and I am totally OK with that, even though I am bone tired. This is the job, and it is a whole lot more fun when our athletes are winning. And getting a chance to hear the U.S. national anthem (although they did not play it all the way through) is still one of the most thrilling moments for anybody who works in the Olympic movement. Great job U.S. freestylers today. We are proud of you. And hopes are high that there are a few more medals out there for us tomorrow.

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Quanon,

There was a rules "clarification" following a meeting in Colombia regarding the "pass behind" being one point. It's apparently been called that way at Pan Ams, Asian Juniors and now Junior Worlds. This wasn't officially published anywhere.

 

Basically, if you're under attack and score on your opponents action, that's 1 point. If you initiate a snapdown and then go behind, that's two. The way it's explained to me is it rewards taking initiative or an offensive action rather than simply countering for control. It's not a 1-point takedown, I believe they're technically calling it a reversal, since the rule book does not have any actual wording about 1-point takedowns.

 

It super confused me when women's FS started. I'd heard it was only a recommendation after Kazan.

 

Another nuance rule. It's not a terrible rule (I personally don't like it because it can lead to more subjectivity and confusion among wrestlers, coaches and fans, no matter how "clear" it can be explained).

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Nice home cooking in Gilman's quarterfinal match...I did realize you could run like a pu**y for six minutes and be rewarded for it.

 

Hope that Bulgarian kid intends to wrestle his entire career within his own country. As soon as he leaves, he's going to find out that it's a lot harder to win when your strategy is to put it in reverse and hope that the moronic ref somehow gives you a gift point, and then takes away a legit point from the opponent.

 

I am not one to usually play the blame the official card. However, watch the match and you tell me what the hell that kid did to deserve the win.

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The rulebook is actually posted:

http://www.fila-official.com/index.php? ... 65&lang=en

 

FILA site > Official > Regulations > Olympic Wrestling

Yes, those are the ones that came out shortly after Dziedzic wrote up a set of recommendations. They don't have the new interpretation of counter scores. Instead, this:

 

"2 points

- To the wrestler who brings his opponent to the ground by passing behind him, and while in this position holding him down with control (three points of contact: two arms and one knee or two knees and one arm or the head).

- To the wrestler who overcomes, holds and controls his opponent by passing behind him."

 

According to that, you should get two points for a reversal or a score by counter.

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To answer how would Marstellar do against Dieringer? Here is a little historical perspective. About 3 yrs ago, Nick Hodgkins beat Dieringer in the Dapper Dan. Earlier that same wrestling season, an 8th grade Chance Marstellar manhandled 3 x PA state champ and senior Nick Hodgkins in an exhibition match. You do the math.

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... and you see the issue some of us have with the fact there was no press release from FILA about the 1-point "counter" ... or as some see it, a "reversal" ... since you're not taking the risk.

 

A simple release after this "clarification" was issued would have been at least worth our time, right?

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A simple release after this "clarification" was issued would have been at least worth our time, right?

 

Obviously. Although I think it's pretty clear that this is a rules change, not a clarification.

 

We can't even get the most basic of basics right, like making it clear what the rules are, or having the finals of events start on time, and not hours ahead of schedule.

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Glad you and I both agree there is a difference between a clarification and a rule change. Zero verbiage in the current posted iteration signifying what is a two point takedown and what is a one point "reversal".

 

Something changed and the world (not just athletes and coaches who were at specific events) should have been made aware.

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Marstellar would handle Dieringer. An 8th grade Marstellar pounded Nick Hodgkins the same year Hodkins beat Dieringer at the Dapper Dan. When it comes to Chance, believe the hype.

 

Im sure Massa, Palacio, Realbuto, I. Jordan, N.Moore and other HS phenoms thought they could handle him too.

 

I believe Chance tried wrestling in the fila jrs last year and went 0-2.

 

Hopefully his career fares better than Hodgkins.

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Marstellar would handle Dieringer. An 8th grade Marstellar pounded Nick Hodgkins the same year Hodkins beat Dieringer at the Dapper Dan. When it comes to Chance, believe the hype.

 

I don't get why you are talking about what Marsteller did in 8th grade. How does a folkstyle exhibition match in 8th grade have anything to do with how Marsteller would do in junior freestyle now? Wouldn't the better comparison be how he did in junior freestyle last summer?

 

I think everybody agrees Marsteller is a top-3 pound-for-pound high school wrestler based on how he performed in high school. There is no need to talk about what he did in 8th grade.

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The first question posed by another poster was : how would Marstellar fare against Dieringer. I think that Chance has taken a little flack for resting this Summer. I have competed and watched PA wrestling for 30 plus years and Chance is one of the best I have ever seen in folkstyle. Just like Kyle Snyder, Chance is relentless on his leg attacks, can ride at will, and has yet to have anyone on any level ride him for more than 10 seconds. Could Kyle Snyder hang with Morgan Mcintosh. In my opinion, the answer is yes. Just like I think Chance would challenge Dieringer in a folkstyle match. Dieringer is very tough in freestyle but Marstellar is college ready in folkstyle now.

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The first question posed by another poster was : how would Marstellar fare against Dieringer. I think that Chance has taken a little flack for resting this Summer. I have competed and watched PA wrestling for 30 plus years and Chance is one of the best I have ever seen in folkstyle. Just like Kyle Snyder, Chance is relentless on his leg attacks, can ride at will, and has yet to have anyone on any level ride him for more than 10 seconds. Could Kyle Snyder hang with Morgan Mcintosh. In my opinion, the answer is yes. Just like I think Chance would challenge Dieringer in a folkstyle match. Dieringer is very tough in freestyle but Marstellar is college ready in folkstyle now.

Mcintosh has not AA yet where Dieringer just placed 3rd big difference let Marstellar enjoy his HS career and leave it at that.

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Marstellar would handle Dieringer. An 8th grade Marstellar pounded Nick Hodgkins the same year Hodkins beat Dieringer at the Dapper Dan. When it comes to Chance, believe the hype.

 

Would all the guys who beat Paul Jenn in 1998 beat Cael Sanderson in 2001? That is how relevant your argument is (maybe less since you are also crossing styles).

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