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GOT TAMMIT FILA!

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JasonBryant wrote,

"My entire point has been there should have been an official release about the pass behind situation, regardless if the wrestlers and coaches were "aware" of the "clarification."

 

Absolutely correct! The language had been written. I can only imagine something more pressing in the countdown to Argentina. Triage, I suspect!

 

JasonBryant wrote,

"Well, the scoreboard wasn't updated to reflect the call. By the time they wished to challenge, it was "too late" as one person who was over there said.

 

Confirm the call immediately. 12 seconds is a lot of time to waste, especially towards the end of the match. If the points would have been put up immediately, then there's time to assess and throw the brick."

 

A wrestler has 5 seconds once the correct score is posted on the scoreboard to challenge or throw-the-brick. If the challenge is confirmed--the sponge is returned to the corner, the score is corrected and the clock returned to the time of the start of the sequence of action in question.

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Stan you posted multiple times. I think you misunderstood Jason's point. It took valuable seconds off of an already "short time" clock to change from 4-4 to 4-3. The coaches thought Gillman was winning 4-4 and then had is change to 4-3. By the time this confirmation came, there was not enough time to justify a possibly losing challenge or to mount a scoring effort. Had they confirmed the 4-3 immediately, the strategy would have been much different.

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oldrules, it's all the more reason to challenge, since all of the time elapsed would have been put back on the clock if the challinge was successful

 

One thing I find odd is that aspect of the challenge isn't specifically mentioned in the official rulebook (Page 24). I've seen it happen both ways, but going back to the original time of the move certainly makes sense.

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Stan,

Thank you for all you do. I know you are just one voice in FILA, and you don't have the final say and vote. Although I blame FILA for the position we are in for the Olympics, I know there have been improvements in the the infrastructure.

 

Although I think 6-6-6 is what the IOC wanted, and could ultimately be what gets wrestling back in the Olympics, i don't care for 6-6-6, and I hope for world championships years its at least 9-9-9.

 

 

Also, as many stated,mother rules need to be more simpler, and I think they are headed that way, but it needs to be moved at a quicker pace.

 

Again, thank you, and keep doing what you can.

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One of the more annoying features of international wrestling is the "challenge." Not as bad as the clinch (thankfully gone), but still a buzzkill.

 

With a challenge, the match gets stopped, sometimes for 5 minutes, while technical minutia are debated. The fans are bored by it. The wrestlers are pacing, catching their breath. The end result is often confusing. And it happens ALL TOO FREQUENTLY. In short, crap like that just kills the excitement.

 

I'm all for correcting a gross miscall, but it seems like making the sport simpler, and not subject to technical minutia, is a better solution. It would be easier to ref and hence no need to throw the brick.

 

Arcane, technical rules, that joe public is clueless about, that have even Olympic gold medal winners scratching their heads over(see Ben Peterson quote)... it's not the answer.

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I've NEVER seen time put back on the clock at an international event. Even when it's clear it should have, I have never seen the clock adjusted to a correct time.

 

Chun/Kaladzinkaya from 2012 Worlds is one example. They set the clock back when it was determined that Chun's head was out of bounds. But that wasn't due to a scored action, so it's not directly comparable. Of course, it was set back to 10 seconds, then it magically changed to 30 seconds, then they only wrestled 20 seconds of that 30.

 

So yeah........it kind of worked........

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I follow the sport nearly every day and have been for years and I can't understand all of the rules. IT'S F'ING RIDICULOUS.

 

Just stop. Why in the hell are they trying to make the rules so difficult to understand?

 

My rules that I could explain to anyone...quickly:

 

Push out = 1 pt

TD (from shot, front head, go behind, counter offense, whatever!) = 2 pt

TD to back = 3 pt

Turn = 2 pt

 

2-3 minute periods with 3 minute periods added for OT, first score wins. Tech is 10 points.

 

All the other crap (2 three point moves will end a match, "pass behind" being only 1 point, hand to hand turns being 1 etc) is OUT. Too confusing for fans and athletes.

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Let's just say, for the sake of argument (I do not believe even for a split second this to be truth), that the "pass behind" has "always" been in the rules, for 50+ years and all "well versed international wrestling fans know this" and the takedowns that we ignorant Americans have been watching for these same 50+ years are all "figments of our imagination" as they were a combination of takedowns, one of the most popualr and well-recognized words in wrestling, and "pass behinds",which no one has ever heard of until takedowns, excuse me, pass-behinds became worth only 1 point..... [deep breath]

 

In europe, a pass-behind is considered 1 point. So sorry to you american wrestling fans. It's always been like that. I'm guessing your folkstyle thinking is messing with your head. :)

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FILA is THE reason we are out of the Olympics and yes, we are out. We are currently trying to get back in. It's blatantly obvious FILA has let us down.

 

No we are not. It was a suggestion. The final decision will be made next month. Do not spread information that is not correct.

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"Absolutely correct! The language had been written. I can only imagine something more pressing in the countdown to Argentina. Triage, I suspect!"

 

In the major sports any rules changes (proposed or implemeted) are scrutinized by the media, print and TV.

 

If there are changes in SCORING proposed, forget about it. Hours and hours of discussion will be forthcoming. Even the minor sports' changes are reported on. Except for wrestling. Clueing in wrestling fans, and the conduit to them, the media, is not even an afterthought it appears.

 

Wrestling fans want to be educated. Comprehensively.

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In europe, a pass-behind is considered 1 point. So sorry to you american wrestling fans. It's always been like that. I'm guessing your folkstyle thinking is messing with your head. :)

Please enlighten me if this is a stupid thought, not sure if I am missing something.

FS TD used to be worth one point no matter if it was a pass by or a wrestling move, correct? There was no real differentiation between the two to US fans. If a wrestler scored a 1 pt takedown off a Hi-C, everyone in the world would turn to our buddies and said, dammm, nice Hi-C for 1. If a wrestler takes a bad shot and his opponent blocks off and spins behind, Europeans would turn to their buddy and say, damm, bad shot, nice pass-by for 1. Meanwhile the US fans would turn and say, damm, nice TD for 1. Is that fairly correct?

I have been in favor of a 2 pt TD the day the push out was implemented. IMHO- A wrestling move that you drill thousands of times and complete successfully is worth more than a Sumo type push. I also believe that a counter to a wrestling move that you drill thousands of times, because that also tales real skill, is also worth more than a sumo push. The added side benefit is that it makes scoring less confusing and less subjective by the officials who Stan D has indicated, can't or do not read the rule changes and by officials who can not be criticized or reviewed by FILA leadership as exemplified by Stan's posts.

The Gilman match should be used as a constructive training tool for officials all over the world but our FILA guy will not even recognize that there may be a rules problem and puts the responsibility on the coaches to throw a cube in the hope of having a decision overturned by guys who haven't read the rule book.

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Stan wrote: Coach J, For your edification, wrestling is not out of the Olympics. On September 8th the Gen. Assembly of the IOC votes in Buenos Aires. We'll find out wrestling's role in the 2020 and 2024 Olympic Games at that time. Though you sound as if you may be wishing for wrestling's ouster so you have the satisfaction of saying I told you so; let's hope you're wrong!

 

Stan, after 2016 wrestling is out--that's a fact for the time being. I don't need your edification. I used to really respect you, but your inability to converse with fellow wrestling people without coming off as a smug smart-ass is symptomatic of the problem with FILA--out of touch.

 

To assume that I want wrestling out of the Olympics to say "I told you so" is utter stupidity. I want the sport I love to be in the Games more than anyone else. If being a jack ass to grass roots supporters of wrestling helps the sport, Godspeed and go FILA.

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I follow the sport nearly every day and have been for years and I can't understand all of the rules. IT'S F'ING RIDICULOUS.

 

Just stop. Why in the hell are they trying to make the rules so difficult to understand?

 

My rules that I could explain to anyone...quickly:

 

Push out = 1 pt

TD (from shot, front head, go behind, counter offense, whatever!) = 2 pt

TD to back = 3 pt

Turn = 2 pt

 

2-3 minute periods with 3 minute periods added for OT, first score wins. Tech is 10 points.

 

All the other crap (2 three point moves will end a match, "pass behind" being only 1 point, hand to hand turns being 1 etc) is OUT. Too confusing for fans and athletes.

I second this. Keep it simple. What is so hard to understand about your suggestions?

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I follow the sport nearly every day and have been for years and I can't understand all of the rules. IT'S F'ING RIDICULOUS.

 

Just stop. Why in the hell are they trying to make the rules so difficult to understand?

 

My rules that I could explain to anyone...quickly:

 

Push out = 1 pt

TD (from shot, front head, go behind, counter offense, whatever!) = 2 pt

TD to back = 3 pt

Turn = 2 pt

 

2-3 minute periods with 3 minute periods added for OT, first score wins. Tech is 10 points.

 

All the other crap (2 three point moves will end a match, "pass behind" being only 1 point, hand to hand turns being 1 etc) is OUT. Too confusing for fans and athletes.

I second this. Keep it simple. What is so hard to understand about your suggestions?

 

also sounds good to me.

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In europe, a pass-behind is considered 1 point. So sorry to you american wrestling fans. It's always been like that. I'm guessing your folkstyle thinking is messing with your head. :)

 

They've always been scored the same, thus many worldwide felt there was no distinction between the two, so I don't think this is a "we've always done it this way," type of thing because where was the clear separation between the two ...

 

It would help to have some clear, concise verbiage in the rule book on what a "takedown" (the word is not in the rulebook) is, and what isn't. The jumbled language seems to be written that way for a reason.

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Hypothetical(or maybe not scenario)

 

JB vs. Tirapell in the World of the World Championships

 

JB takes a shot and Tirapell stops the shot successfully and thus locks up a front headlock. JB being a slick wrestler escapes the front headlock and comes out on top. Is this 1 or 2 points under the current FILA rules?

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Jason, a "takedown," when by offensive leg attack or counter from all fours, was "always" 1 point. Now the distinction is being drawn between the two, with the leg attack resulting in 2 points and the pass-by only 1 point. The casual fan and the new fan will only see that the two guys started on their feet and one got behind the other--making it any more complicated than that or saying it's "always been called this way" muddles the matter unnecessarily and is not going to make sense to people who can be drawn in to appreciate the sport.

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I follow the sport nearly every day and have been for years and I can't understand all of the rules. IT'S F'ING RIDICULOUS.

 

Just stop. Why in the hell are they trying to make the rules so difficult to understand?

 

My rules that I could explain to anyone...quickly:

 

Push out = 1 pt

TD (from shot, front head, go behind, counter offense, whatever!) = 2 pt

TD to back = 3 pt

Turn = 2 pt

 

2-3 minute periods with 3 minute periods added for OT, first score wins. Tech is 10 points.

 

All the other crap (2 three point moves will end a match, "pass behind" being only 1 point, hand to hand turns being 1 etc) is OUT. Too confusing for fans and athletes.

I second this. Keep it simple. What is so hard to understand about your suggestions?

 

also sounds good to me.

 

I fourth this. If you can't explain it to a 5th-grader, how many casual fans are going to understand it?

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Don Mog,

 

Enlighten me, because everything I've read from every news source out there is that we were dropped and now have a chance to get back in. It wasn't merely a suggestion. It was voted upon and finalized. As of now wrestling is out in 2020. We are trying to get back in. Show me otherwise.

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