GOT TAMMIT FILA!

[Jaroslav Hasek 2,047]

As in any sport--football, baseball etc--the viewing audience, coaches, and players disagree w/ calls made by the officials, as indicated in today's WSJ article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 61210.html

 

ugh, that article is terrible and represents everything that is wrong, archaic and anachronistic about baseball. nobody watches baseball to hate the umpire. thats silly. every other argument posited by the author is specious or based on faulty nostalgia. it is a terrible hunk of tripe that should be relegated to the scrap heap, suitable only for tottering codgers wistfully remembering the days of spitballs and segregation.

 

referencing that pablum will advance no one's cause.

 

sorry, that type of mentality that crops up with baseball "purists" really sets me off and baseball media coverage is lousy with it.

 

anyway, i don't even think it's applicable here. we're talking about establishing clear rules. FILA seems to be having problems even nailing that part down. then we can worry about whether or not there is any grey area to argue about, and then whether those arguments should be settled by human referees or by computers and "math or physics" or video games, as your boy Jerry Cianciolo stupidly puts it.

[BobDole 1,193]

Hypothetical(or maybe not scenario)

 

JB vs. Tirapell in the World of the World Championships

 

JB takes a shot and Tirapell stops the shot successfully and thus locks up a front headlock. JB being a slick wrestler escapes the front headlock and comes out on top. Is this 1 or 2 points under the current FILA rules?

If Tirapell had three or more points of support on the ground before JB initiated his scoring action, and stayed on the ground throughout JB's scoring action, it's 1. Otherwise, it's 2.

 

Thanks....makes perfect sense...right????????

[vhsalum 43]

Dear Stan Dziedick

 

still... waiting...

[BobDole 1,193]

Hopefully our guys will just wrestle with 3 supporting points on the ground and thus never give up a 2pt takedown, just pass behinds.

 

If I am up by 2 points with a short time remaining I will just take a bad shot and let the guy "pass behind" me and I will still win.

 

Awesome strategies right there.

[49northwrestling 9]

Stan, another question. Today FILA released a series of 3 videos (womens, free, greco) showing how to score points, which I assume is to show the general public what is going on.

 

One issue (well.....for now)

 

The videos show a snapdown for 2 points, but don't show a sprawl counter for 1 point. Both of these look similar to someone new to the sport. Do you not think this will cause confusion?

 

On a related note, I think it's great FILA is starting to webcast events BUT if you are going to commentate in English, get a native speaker. I have no idea who they've had doing it for Juniors and Cadets, but some of the language used is horrible. I don't mean the accent, I mean the direct translations from his first language to English. Words like grab, roll, trunks, carnage, etc. Personally, I'd rather listen to a person speaking confident and fluent French with enthusiasm over mis-translated English.

[quanon 161]

Hypothetical(or maybe not scenario)

 

JB vs. Tirapell in the World of the World Championships

 

JB takes a shot and Tirapell stops the shot successfully and thus locks up a front headlock. JB being a slick wrestler escapes the front headlock and comes out on top. Is this 1 or 2 points under the current FILA rules?

If Tirapell had three or more points of support on the ground before JB initiated his scoring action, and stayed on the ground throughout JB's scoring action, it's 1. Otherwise, it's 2.

 

Thanks....makes perfect sense...right????????

 

This is similar to the difference between scoring 3 or 2 off of a "throw" [from a front headlock / gator roll].

 

[edited to make more sense]

[tirapell 34]

If you had any doubt as to why we're out of the Olympics, here's a good start. This is the best we could do:

 

http://news.internationalwrestling.org/ ... wrestling/

 

If we don't replace FILA, we are going nowhere in a hurry.

[tirapell 34]

I must have missed the part in the video where they explained that you could score 1 point on your feet (there wasn't any such explanation). In fact, it only talked about 2 or 3 points being scored from the feet. I guess it wasn't important enough to go over.

 

I would call this whole act a comedy, but it's more of a tragedy. Truly embarrassing.

[AnklePicker 645]

Wow, not to mention no push out explanation. Basically skipped all 1 point scores.

 

Seriously FILA must be a sham.

[quanon 161]

Below are the rules for singles squash. From the front page of the World Squash Federation website, it's one click to find the page with links to versions of the singles rules in Arabic, Chinese, Dutch, Estonian, French, German, Portuguese, Spanish, and Russian.

 

http://www.worldsquash.org/ws/wp-conten ... les-V6.pdf

 

I haven't gone through them in depth, but they are numbered (and sub numbered), so that individual rules are easy to identify and discuss. They also have useful appendices, like Appendix 4.1, an algorithm that helps you decide whether interference occurred.

 

Rule 17 has apparently caused some confusion, so there are guidelines that inform referees how to deal with it:

http://www.worldsquash.org/ws/wp-conten ... ations.pdf

 

Here's their Olympic bid video, for anyone who hasn't seen it:

[jstock 125]

That is embarrassing. This just reflects very poorly on the elected FILA officials. I think that could be one of the problems (among many). As an example - Stan may not be on the mat officials training and certification committee but he and his peers are ultimately responsible. Writing that the officials may not have read the rules is not a valid excuse. Reasonable leaders would recognize the disconnect and take the initiative to make sure the problem is fixed. The reply we would hope to see from Stan would be something like " I can see the confusion or error, I will find out more details and work to resolve the issue". NOT " We sent the officials the rules but I don't know if they read them". Stan may not be on the committee that produced this laughable shabby video, but he and his peers are ultimately responsible. I hope that Stan can watch these video's objectively and see that some of these official FILA videos contradict what he wrote over the past 2 days. I don’t know the FILA org chart but dam. Someone has to see this crap and actually speak up and demand that these errors are fixed. Someone should be stepping in and take charge and hold some people accountable and fix the errors. Real leaders know who the people are that a task can be delegated to and they also know who needs to be micro managed. FILA needs a strong leader that is willing to break what seems to be a good ‘ol boy network up and not be afraid to offend some people and get things done right.

[de4856 370]

Maybe to get some sanity in FILA, we need Bob Dole to take charge of that organization.

[sallylovy 0]

so cool

[49northwrestling 9]

The scoring videos have been removed from FILA's YouTube channel.

[oberebo 0]

What is going on. Yesterday I was able to get on International wrestling news and get the brackets. However, I can not bring up this sight today. You can get the live webcast from Fila but no live results or brackets. The link to International wrestling news on other sites including 49north wrestling also does not bring up this site. The finals start at 9AM US time and you can watch it live on Fila but I am clueless a to the results and/or brackets.

[AnklePicker 645]

Fila has live brackets on their page. All US wrestlers were eliminated from what I see.

[jstock 125]

I read that it took about 4 hrs to put updated brackets up.

[quanon 161]

And this match embodies so much of what is wrong with FILA:

 

http://www.dartfish.tv/Presenter.aspx?C ... 17104&CL=1

 

Just jump to 5:00 to watch the carnage begin with a really strange call. I can see 1 either way, but 2 for Japan? Please explain. Then a challenge, where Turkey loses another point. Then ugliness ensues.

 

Here's what Stan said about the process:

 

"It appears most of you must have missed the addition to the challenge process. The 'Jury of Appeal' now must render a decision 1st in any challenge, not only if the refereeing body disagrees as it had been. "

 

So, what did the jury of appeal say? From the video, it appears that there was no jury of appeal, just the referees confirming their original (bizarre) decision.

 

Just watched a very similar situation in the semis of freestyle today. The jury of appeal (on camera this time) overturned the ruling of 2 for a pushout.

[AnklePicker 645]

The 58 kg final's ending was odd. The kid thinks he has the 2 for the win but the ref scores it 1. They review and it's 2. Please explain.

 

Another thing that I don't understand and I realize isn't new but why on earth does the mat judge have to look for confirmation for a fall? Isn't he or she the only one with the angle to actually see the fall oftentimes?

[AnklePicker 645]

BTW the announcer for these worlds has seen quite a few matches now and you can tell he still has absolutely no clue how things are scored. It has nothing to do with being lost in translation either. He just can't figure it out.

[49northwrestling 9]

BTW the announcer for these worlds has seen quite a few matches now and you can tell he still has absolutely no clue how things are scored. It has nothing to do with being lost in translation either. He just can't figure it out.

 

What I don't get is off the top of my head, I can think of 4 sources that have live-streamed before, speak English and are fully capable of commentating and know what they are watching. I'm willing to bet if FILA had asked, any one of these people would have done it.

[jolugogar 7]

The scoring videos have been removed from FILA's YouTube channel.

Obviously someone has made a call and ordered to remove the videos. I think videos are a good way to show the rules, but these really were not very clarifying and forgot some points situations (specially the complicated ones), so they were useless. I think the videos were made by the Russian side of FILA (Russian wrestlers, Russian referee).

[fullnelson 129]

After watching a few matches, besides ambiguous rules, these World Class officials are pathetic. They remind me of beginner officials, given JV HS matches for experience. International wrestling is beleaguered right now.

[wnywrestling 69]

Has the general assembly ever failed to ratify the executive board's recommendation?

 

i've read that it's a rubber stamp vote, so if that's the case, then wrestling is effectively out and it all comes down to the second vote on the final sport for the core 28.

 

i dont have any inside knowledge tho, so if anyone does i'll be happily corrected. one possibility i could imagine is that everyone agrees that they'll vote wrestling back in on the second vote so they save some time and just not ratify the exec rec. but who knows with how shady and underhanded the IOC is.

 

For what it's worth, Wade Schalles just posted that he thinks the IOC will reject the Executive Committee’s decision:

http://wadeschalles.com/wrestling-is-ba ... -olympics/

 

Of course, he also thinks FILA "gets it":

http://wadeschalles.com/filas-getting-i ... ling-isnt/

[littlepun 23]

Pico's gold medal match at Cadet World's:

 

 

So, 2 minute rounds? Pushouts to the hip are 2? A little ambiguous on the 2-2 crotch lift, but ambiguousness is the nature of the beast, I guess.

 

The thing is this: There are strategies to win with any rules (or interpretations of rules, whatever they may be). To correctly develop these strategies, there has to be consistency over time. Settle on the rules and the interpretation of them and stick with them. Hopefully, they will be simple enough that they won't confuse people with 30+ years active in the sport, let alone the casual viewer.