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What specifically were the constraints that came from the previous leader?

 

Best-of-three match format, 2 minute periods, a 30 second sudden-death-overtime using the 'ball-pull/clinch' and 13:00 starting time are a few off-hand.

 

BTW, which factions pushed for the 7 point TF? And their rationale?"

 

As we solved for various priorities, constraints materialized. For example, by going to a 2 x 3 minute-period, cumulative score format; it meant that roughly 50 % of the matches had to end prematurely by 2 minutes to off-set the additional 1 minute/period--[given the number matches that had been determined in two 2 minute periods in the best-of-three format minus the time saved by not using 30 sec. sudden-death overtime]. In addition, the broadcasters and other media advised more than 3 mats and a 2-day format were not in the best interest of wrestling.

Most agree w/ Technical Superiority. When it was settled to use a 1 day format w/ 15 minute breaks between the 1/4 & 1/2 finals, 7 pts became a starting point.

Me personally, I'd rather have a starting time of 9 am; repechage for those losing to 1/2 finalists, no 2 x 3s ending the bout, 10 pt TS and a longer break time between the 1/4 and 1/2 finals.

After Budapest, we'll have more information to determine if we are able to introduce any of the alterations the world-wide wrestling community desires, w/out sacrificing the 3 minute period time??

 

Stan:

 

Please clarify a few of the things you've said. The old leadership said that championships have to start at 1 PM -- so why hasn't that changed for this year's Worlds? If there were no 1 PM rule, then match length should not be an issue (I ask because match length is apparently the reason for the 7 point tech?).

 

Also, which media outlets have a problem with having more than 3 mats? And which media outlets have a problem with having multi-day tournaments? If anything, I would think that championships that have all of the finals at a single time would be much easier to sell to media outlets. One would assume that there would be media outlets willing to buy a single two-hour finals package that would be uninterested in buying seven days of highlights.

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quanon wrote:

"If there were no 1 PM rule, then match length should not be an issue (I ask because match length is apparently the reason for the 7 point tech?)."

 

It isn't an issue for me. I don't mind watching wrestlers determine who the best is for 12 or so hrs. But many including the media appear to have a limit. Adding roughly 50% more wrestling time/bout--w/out off-setting time elsewhere--may take the session well past midnight. Again okay by me!

I'm for the 9 am start, which would provide more--maybe not ample rest time--for the wrestlers in the key 1/4 and 1/2 final matches.

The researchers disagree, they argue adding 50% more wrestling time/match when wrestling 5 or 6 matches in some cases w/ 15 minutes rest in one day, taxes the wrestlers beyond what can be justified scientifically and impairs the quality of wrestling in the most watched matches.

Here's Sports Illustrated's take today:

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2013/o ... wrestling/

 

jstock wrote,

"The number of DI programs is down but the number of entries at NCAA's is about the same."

 

Of course, the number of qualifiers is the same. How many spectators and wrestlers would there be if the NCAAs were in let's say Uzbekistan?

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tirapell wrote,

"You mean like the NCAA Tournament? The one that draws 15,000+ annually for 3 days of 9-10am start and 10 pm finish, with a 2-3 hour break in between?"

 

And what? The # of Division I programs has shrunk at a time when the number of member Federations and participant @ the World Championships has skyrocketed. The number of entries/wtg @ this yr's WC will be 25% greater than @ the NCAAs. There are a 177 FILA members, up from roughly ninetyish, 25 years ago. London's attendance by the way was roughly 160,000 and would have been larger if not limited by the size of the venue.

 

Each year the WC's feed is purchased and viewed by a much larger TV viewing audience than the NCAAs.

 

You insult the intelligence of the readers. I think most see clearly your less than veiled desire to have wrestling out of the Olympic program.

 

Smoke and mirrors Stan. Smoke and mirrors.

 

You're almost right about one thing though. I do want to see you and the rest of FILA out of wrestling. Myself and many others have no veil hiding that.

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The researchers disagree, they argue adding 50% more wrestling time/match when wrestling 5 or 6 matches in some cases w/ 15 minutes rest in one day, taxes the wrestlers beyond what can be justified scientifically and impairs the quality of wrestling in the most watched matches.

 

Obviously the quality of the wrestling will be better in the finals if the finalists are fresh. So why are we running championships in a single day? You said that the media wants this -- which media outlets?

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"jstock wrote,"The number of DI programs is down but the number of entries at NCAA's is about the same."

Of course, the number of qualifiers is the same. How many spectators and wrestlers would there be if the NCAAs were in let's say Uzbekistan?"

WTF is your point ? - This is getting totally frustrating. Seriously, did I miss a point somewhere ?

Out of all the crap I wrote, this is your reply ?

If NCAA's were in Uzb we would still have some dihard fans that would attend and we already know that Flo would go and do a great job covering the event. Flo would promote the event while we have to rely on themat forum for sources of info or video links.

Another plug for Flo - They sent 2 or 4 guys to Russia to cover their nationals and were able to upload better coverage and interviews than FILA or NBC does for the Olympics. No, it was not streaming video but most Olympic coverage is tape delay anyway.

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It isn't an issue for me. I don't mind watching wrestlers determine who the best is for 12 or so hrs. But many including the media appear to have a limit. Adding roughly 50% more wrestling time/bout--w/out off-setting time elsewhere--may take the session well past midnight. Again okay by me!

 

Just stop with this crap. The tournaments are 4/3 weights per day. Are you seriously trying to tell me that if you went to a tournament schedule that ran 5/4 weights in a day, it would run til midnight? BS to the max. This literally happens every single weekend in America with 16-32 man brackets with 10 weights and it can be done in the same time frame that FILA runs 3 weights with 1 minute less time and no overtimes.

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Media meaning the Olympic Broadcasting Service. The Olympics, with small weights, can clearly be done in one day, although it takes away a lot of the ability to bring drama, buildup and human interest if the only chance anyone gets to see Jordan Burroughs or Jake Varner was for one day. How many times do we see T&F preliminaries on one day and the final the next? Same with swimming?

 

The OBS/Olympics should be respectful of a sport's format.

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Media meaning the Olympic Broadcasting Service. The Olympics, with small weights, can clearly be done in one day, although it takes away a lot of the ability to bring drama, buildup and human interest if the only chance anyone gets to see Jordan Burroughs or Jake Varner was for one day. How many times do we see T&F preliminaries on one day and the final the next? Same with swimming?

 

The OBS/Olympics should be respectful of a sport's format.

 

so it s not actual media companies that are buying a product and selling it to viewers or selling advertising based on viewership? its just a different part of the IOC?

 

that would sadly actually make sense.

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Anyone who is buying what Stan is selling should first do a little soul searching and then practice the art of deductive reasoning.

 

Poor leadership attempts to control by fear and misinformation. I've read 8 pages of "you don't know what we know", only what they know has a historical track record of jack squat.

 

When you point out FACTS, like the article from 2004 where Stan proclaims his undying love for the new rules, they are ignored and "forgotten" when giving his new sermon on how this time, it's different.

 

I wish anyone who believes any of this the best in their relationship with FILA moving forward. One can only be fooled so many times in a single lifetime.

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"It isn't an issue for me. I don't mind watching wrestlers determine who the best is for 12 or so hrs. But many including the media appear to have a limit. Adding roughly 50% more wrestling time/bout--w/out off-setting time elsewhere--may take the session well past midnight. Again okay by me! "

 

How were the sessions ran when we had longer matches and more weights in the 70's to early 80's...you know...the time when some rules may have been flawed but the sport was great to watch and could be explained easily ? (WOW - Think how cool it would be to have the capabilities we have now for coverage in that era.)

Are we really concerned about wether NBC will show 3.5 matches unless we keep them happy ? BTW - Can the personal interest stories. I would rather see 4.0 matches and no stories.

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olddirty wrote,

"Just stop with this crap. The tournaments are 4/3 weights per day. Are you seriously trying to tell me that if you went to a tournament schedule that ran 5/4 weights in a day, it would run til midnight? BS to the max. This literally happens every single weekend in America with 16-32 man brackets with 10 weights and it can be done in the same time frame that FILA runs 3 weights with 1 minute less time and no overtimes."

 

Stop embarrassing yourself. There are 40+ man/woman brackets w/ 3 mats. 5 wtgs would take well into the next day :?:

 

 

jstock wrote:

"How were the sessions ran when we had longer matches and more weights in the 70's to early 80's...you know..."

 

Of course I know, I wrestled '73 to '77, National Coach '78 to '84. Here's a clue---19 to 25 wrestlers/weight class; 3 day tournaments; each discipline separate location; 2 to 3matches/day; scratch weight every day, 2 hrs before session started and rd robin format?? Today's #s--roughly 18 day tournament for the 3 disciplines????? What developing country and even most advanced countries w/ depressed currencies could afford such a system :roll:

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olddirty wrote,

"Just stop with this crap. The tournaments are 4/3 weights per day. Are you seriously trying to tell me that if you went to a tournament schedule that ran 5/4 weights in a day, it would run til midnight? BS to the max. This literally happens every single weekend in America with 16-32 man brackets with 10 weights and it can be done in the same time frame that FILA runs 3 weights with 1 minute less time and no overtimes."

 

Stop embarrassing yourself. There are 40+ man/woman brackets w/ 3 mats. 5 wtgs would take well into the next day :?:

 

 

jstock wrote:

"How were the sessions ran when we had longer matches and more weights in the 70's to early 80's...you know..."

 

Of course I know, I wrestled '73 to '77, National Coach '78 to '84. Here's a clue---19 to 25 wrestlers/weight class; 3 day tournaments; each discipline separate location; 2 to 3matches/day; scratch weight every day, 2 hrs before session started and rd robin format?? Today's #s--roughly 18 day tournament for the 3 disciplines????? What developing country and even most advanced countries w/ depressed currencies could afford such a system :roll:

"3 day tournaments; each discipline separate location;"

 

When was this ever the case in the Olympics, which is the only thing we are talking about?

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Stan - The more you write the less faith I have. How can a guy who wrestled and coached watch this unless you're crazy or paid (off) very well ? You are obviously one of those who is too smart to take constructive criticism because you obviously know what will be in all of wrestlings best interest.

This has been completely pointless. (but at least your FILA rules video's are down)

I would love to hear a candid interview with immunity from FILA with Zeke, Gable, J Smith, Cael, Brands..... Topic - Honest thoughts on Stan and FILA.

Unfortunately, looks like Intermat may have nailed it...as proven by USA's own Stan the Man on these 10 pages.

"That won't be easy conversation to have with the existing members of the FILA Bureau and membership. Though far from the totally corrupt body being posited by some, they are an engrained institution use to a modus operandi free of scrutiny and outside influence. For readers and wrestling fans who are utterly discontent with the organization, there might be no reparation achievable that could temper their distaste with what has transpired the past 15 years."

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Of course, the number of qualifiers is the same. How many spectators and wrestlers would there be if the NCAAs were in let's say Uzbekistan?

 

the more answers like these i see the more im persuaded that fila getting bounced from the olympics might not be such a bad thing.

-------

 

These arguments are getting pretty strange.

 

A sport that has the world competing attracting more of the world's eyeballs than a sport that only has USA competing is about as surprising as a HS State Championship tournament outdrawing a league championship. Earth-shaking! :roll:

 

Asking how many spectators would watch the ncaas if they were in Uzbekistan? What is the point? To denigrate the NCAA tournament? To put a shiny polish on what FILA has done?

 

Earth to Stan... wrestling got booted from the Olympics. FILA's pathetic leaders should take some blame over this. And the rule changes FILA made over the years (excluding the very recent ones) made FS wrestling harder to understand, more subject to luck, delays, protests, and in general a much more boring sport to watch.

 

Don't cherry pick some stats to make FILA look better than the NCAA. You are putting lipstick on a pig.

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Do the so-called "leaders" in other international sports find it beneficial to radically change the rules every few years? Somebody who followed NCAA wrestling 20 years ago but then took a leave of absence from the sport could turn on ESPN in March of 2014 and know exactly what was happening. There might be a few changes here and there that would take a few minutes to pick up, but basically it would be easy to understand. On the other hand, take someone who followed freestyle wrestling 20 years ago, and have them watch a match in 2004, then watch a match in 2008, and then finally watch a match today, and they wouldn't know what the hell was going on.

 

Stan's comments are appreciated, but are analogous to the captain of the Titanic claiming that he did a good job navigating the ship. Full steam ahead FILA.....full steam ahead.

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Stop embarrassing yourself. There are 40+ man/woman brackets w/ 3 mats. 5 wtgs would take well into the next day

 

Pull your head out of your ass. You want to drop weight classes instead of add mats to a tournament. How out of touch can you be? The fact that this is FILA's idea of how to run the sport should be enough to drop the hammer. The Olympics have 20 man brackets. College tournaments can get through 10 weights with 32 man brackets with full wrestle backs in 2 days. 5 weights in a day with 2 wrestle back rounds isnt a problem.

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It's disgusting that other low-profile sports get to occupy several days at the Olympics, yet somehow wrestling has to be completed in a single day. And it's not even a single day, but some sort of "European" style quasi-day where nobody shows up to work until 1pm. So FILA has essentially relegated the world's oldest sport to a couple of hours once every four years. Great job. And then they have the audacity to patronize the rest of us when we call them out for being inane. The poor babies can't even figure out that starting a tournament at 1pm on three mats is almost as stupid as starting at 5pm on one mat. But it's all good because we can just cut more weights. One weight class on one mat, starting at 5pm. 10 second periods, if it's scoreless we'll roll some dice, 60 seconds rest in between matches. Finals will wrap up by 5:30. Sounds good.

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Potentially, the world championships can have too many competitors. There are no limits on participation, and there are three styles, as of now. Ideally, we would probably want four styles (adding women's Greco), and more weight classes in each style -- this would make for a very large and cumbersome tournament.

 

At the same time, our continental championships have been watered down to the point that they are meaningless -- the best Russians do not go, and often the best Americans don't either.

 

It seems like we could kill two birds with one stone here. Make the continental championships the qualifier for both the Olympics and the Worlds -- say one month out from Worlds. Four continental championships (Europe, Asia/Oceania, Americas, Africa), four qualifiers from each weight -- 16 wrestler brackets. Under that system, the world's best wrestlers would have to perform in at least three marquee events -- national championships, continental championships, and world championships. The size of each championship/qualifier event would also be reasonable, no matter the number of weights, because there would be a built-in cap on competitors. That solves some of the logistical problems, and creates an additional meaningful event to build fan interest in the sport.

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Put yourself in FILA's position; they're obviously doing everything possible to appease the IOC-for their own survival; it's obvious they don't care about what's best for the sport. They know if we don't get back in the Olympics, they are done. So, and I hate to say this, it's almost a win-win situation, either we are in the Olympics or FILA is no more. Personally I hope we get back in and then there is some kind of mutiny, for the better, at FILA.

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Put yourself in FILA's position; they're obviously doing everything possible to appease the IOC-for their own survival; it's obvious they don't care about what's best for the sport. They know if we don't get back in the Olympics, they are done. So, and I hate to say this, it's almost a win-win situation, either we are in the Olympics or FILA is no more. Personally I hope we get back in and then there is some kind of mutiny, for the better, at FILA.

 

+1

 

Worst case scenario is we get back in but rest on our laurels with FILA, who has literally done everything possible to get ousted from the Olympics, outside of calling the IOC member's moms names, and don't get the massive change we need to be sustainable.

 

The days of 'FILA Stan & Co' should be numbered, regardless of Olympic outcome. However, judging by history and wrestling fans apathy, this won't be the case.

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