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Saitiev Quote on Slay

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With re to Adam, I am relatively uninformed. Didn't he win a world title at 163 in 1999? What happened there? Why wasn't he able to keep the spot? Didn't he win a bronze at 163 at the European championships in 1998? Who beat him?

 

He won the 76kg World title in 1999, beating Leipold 6-3 in the finals. Buvaisar didn't compete at major championships in 1999, perhaps at first due to injury but I think he wanted to let his brother win a world title. Adam moved up to 85kg the next year and amazingly won the Olympic title. At 98 Europeans, Adam Saitiev faced Ritter from Hungary twice, losing to him early and beating him for 3rd. Leipold won the tournament and had beaten him earlier that year pretty convincingly at World Cup.

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PR, you make some very good and interesting points but you're still largely relying on conjecture. It's much easier to scrutinize Buvaisar's career if he's the guy at the ideal weight for 13-14 years. When Adam lost to Leipold he wasn't 18, that was the year he turned 21 (though I believe still 20 for the match). B. Saitiev had some lopsided wins over Leipold too, he just faced him more (5-6 times), you're cherry-picking to say that Adam had more dominating performances. From what I can tell, Adam beat him 3-1 at Europeans and then 6-3 at Worlds. Also, the height difference is not as dramatic as you claim (5 inches). According to FILA, Adam is 5'10 and Buvaisar is 6'0. B Saitiev didn't lose a match from late '94 (age 19) to 2000 Olympics whereas Adam lost a few matches at 20-21 at 76kg, so beyond Buvaisar's streak I think it makes sense to give him the spot.

 

 

I have seen them beside each other many times. At least 4 inch difference unless B had some cowboy boots on:-) All I am saying basically is that B would have been much better fit at 185 in my opinion. Could B have beaten Cael? Not sure but I would bet not. He was losing to Ketov in the room in 08 pretty badly so he couldn't have even made the team in 08 or even 04 with Sajidov I bet. It is simply hard to have two great brothers at the same weight, something has to give unfortunetly.

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He was losing to Ketov in the room in 08 pretty badly so he couldn't have even made the team in 08 or even 04 with Sajidov I bet. It is simply hard to have two great brothers at the same weight, something has to give unfortunetly.

 

Again, I really don't think this specific example is good support for your case. While it's incredible that Adam had such success up at 84kg/85kg, it's not like Buvaisar was big for 74kg either - he was the taller and lankier of the two and they probably weighed pretty similar naturally. The fact that Buvaisar at age 33 was losing to Ketoev who had serious trouble cutting to 84kg for 2008 Olympics (thus was probably much, much bigger than him in practice) isn't that noteworthy. Would you expect Adam competing in 2010 or 2011 to be able to beat someone who weighs 30 pounds more than him naturally in practice? It's 100% conjecture to speculate how Buvaisar would have done at 84kg if he had been there for the majority of his career, and it's still not clear to me that he's the bigger of the brothers even if he is taller. What we do know is that he won Europeans at 85kg the only time he bumped up. What we also know is that Buvaisar was more consistent and more dominant at 74/76kg for his first 5 years on the senior level than Adam was from 1997-1999.

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PR, you make some very good and interesting points but you're still largely relying on conjecture. It's much easier to scrutinize Buvaisar's career if he's the guy at the ideal weight for 13-14 years. When Adam lost to Leipold he wasn't 18, that was the year he turned 21 (though I believe still 20 for the match). B. Saitiev had some lopsided wins over Leipold too, he just faced him more (5-6 times), you're cherry-picking to say that Adam had more dominating performances. From what I can tell, Adam beat him 3-1 at Europeans and then 6-3 at Worlds. Also, the height difference is not as dramatic as you claim (5 inches). According to FILA, Adam is 5'10 and Buvaisar is 6'0. B Saitiev didn't lose a match from late '94 (age 19) to 2000 Olympics whereas Adam lost a few matches at 20-21 at 76kg, so beyond Buvaisar's streak I think it makes sense to give him the spot.

 

 

I have seen them beside each other many times. At least 4 inch difference unless B had some cowboy boots on:-) All I am saying basically is that B would have been much better fit at 185 in my opinion. Could B have beaten Cael? Not sure but I would bet not. He was losing to Ketov in the room in 08 pretty badly so he couldn't have even made the team in 08 or even 04 with Sajidov I bet. It is simply hard to have two great brothers at the same weight, something has to give unfortunetly.

 

Apart from you, who is PR?

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I couldn't find the other match, but had totally forgotten that Joe Williams won the World Cup four times! That's three more times than John Smith. Only Baumgartner had more off the top of my head (7). Kevin Jackson, Dave Schultz won three times and Zeke Jones also won four times. Kenny Monday never won it.

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B Satiev vs Williams 5-4. Very close, Joe should/could have won at 01 worlds.

B Satiev vs Williams 5-3. Can't find it but am pretty sure it was 2000 World cup.

A Satiev vs Williams 5-0 then pin. 1999 Worlds.

 

 

Hard to believe that they both only won a title together once in 2002.

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Apart from you, who is PR? Just a fan that never achieved his goals in wrestling:-) PR is my beloved congressman:-) from Wisconsin.

 

 

B Satiev is better I admit:-)

 

 

PR,

:)I am mentioning that because you are addressing your response to PR. It looks like you mixed up your alias' and you and bwh27 are one and the same!

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B Satiev vs Williams 5-4. Very close, Joe should/could have won at 01 worlds.

B Satiev vs Williams 5-3. Can't find it but am pretty sure it was 2000 World cup.

A Satiev vs Williams 5-0 then pin. 1999 Worlds.

 

 

Hard to believe that they both only won a title together once in 2002.

 

Actually they never won a world title together since Buvaisar didn't make the team in 2002. They did win Europeans together a couple times, but that's obviously not as significant.

 

As for the Joe Williams results, that's cherry-picking to support your argument and it's just as easy if not more so to do it in Buvaisar's favor. Because of the fact that styles make match-ups and even the best wrestlers have varying performances you can't base much on a single common opponent. First of all, in 2001 Worlds Buvaisar really didn't wrestle well, not sure why but he had two other one point matches and just didn't seem nearly as sharp as many of his other dominating performances. Adam only beat Alik Musaev 4-2 at 1999 Worlds, not a very accomplished wrestler. At 1998 Europeans Adam was a few months from 21 (the age at which Buvaisar had already won two World/Olympic titles) yet he split close matches with Arpad Ritter and beat Ismailov 4-2. Buvaisar's only result I could find against Ismailov he beat him 10-0 and he had a bunch of dominating wins over Ritter including 8-0, 6-0 and 6-1 in the World finals. They were both phenomenal at 74/76kg, but especially considering Adam's short stint there you don't have much to conclude he was the better wrestler.

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Don't forget this is translated, so the English translation may not totally convey all of Saitiev's intent.

 

I just started reading the first few posts and was about to post that this is a case of lost in translation.

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I don't know how true this is, but I heard before that Russia didn't want to put both Adam and B on the same squad because they're both Chechen. Some kind of political posturing or something like that. And that was why Adam wasn't on a lot of world/Olympic teams.

 

This doesn't sound unlikely at all, but we'd have to find out who wrestled in their place those years to confirm they weren't Chechen.

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Slay went from 8th ranked in the U.S., to olympic gold, and then to retirement all in a 4-5 month period. What do you expect a six time world champ and three time olympic gold medalist to think of him.

 

What would we think of a Russian -- (or, for that matter, an Irish woman swimmer) -- who accomplished such a feat?

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Slay went from 8th ranked in the U.S., to olympic gold, and then to retirement all in a 4-5 month period. What do you expect a six time world champ and three time olympic gold medalist to think of him.

 

What would we think of a Russian -- (or, for that matter, an Irish woman swimmer) -- who accomplished such a feat?

 

 

What do you call the guy who placed last in medical school?

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What would we think of a Russian -- (or, for that matter, an Irish woman swimmer) -- who accomplished such a feat?

 

Speaking only for myself, I would think "there goes an Olympic gold medalist."

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Doctor ...

 

Would you want him to perform a life saving surgery on you?

 

As long as he was qualified it doesn't make a difference. Academic standing doesn't necessarily reflect skill level. Some people are better in the classroom than the actual application.

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Doctor ...

 

Would you want him to perform a life saving surgery on you?

 

As long as he was qualified it doesn't make a difference. Academic standing doesn't necessarily reflect skill level. Some people are better in the classroom than the actual application.

 

I never said there are no exceptions but in general he would not be as good and if you had 2 doctors standing in front of you with one being the best in his class and the other the worst I bet you would choose the former.

 

If the worst in his class were just as good or better than the best the majority of times they would abolish grades altogether or would praise students for getting bad grades. That is absurd. Its something bad doctors use to justify their lives.

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What would we think of a Russian -- (or, for that matter, an Irish woman swimmer) -- who accomplished such a feat?

 

Speaking only for myself, I would think "there goes an Olympic gold medalist."

 

 

Exactly.

 

Right but not the best wrestler in history or a record setter or father of modern wrestling and so on. Perhaps he would even be called a bit lucky considering he won silver but the guy with Gold tested positive for drugs..

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