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JohnnyThompsonnum1

would you have called the pin?

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I have to assume that Ramos pinned Stieber then too, right?

As far as I'm concerned Stieber was more pinned than Hanke was, but I like pro wrestling, and according to Bob Dole that means my opinion doesn't count.

See photo 46 on this and it will help you realize the pinning area isn't just the shoulders.

 

http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS ... Photos.pdf

 

Stieber wasn't pinned FYI.

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I have to assume that Ramos pinned Stieber then too, right?

As far as I'm concerned Stieber was more pinned than Hanke was, but I like pro wrestling, and according to Bob Dole that means my opinion doesn't count.

See photo 46 on this and it will help you realize the pinning area isn't just the shoulders.

 

http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS ... Photos.pdf

 

Stieber wasn't pinned FYI.

 

Ok on Hanke. I wasn't making a statement, I was asking a question. It got answered.

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As far as I'm concerned Stieber was more pinned than Hanke was, but I like pro wrestling, and according to Bob Dole that means my opinion doesn't count.

See photo 46 on this and it will help you realize the pinning area isn't just the shoulders.

 

http://matref0.tripod.com/Articles/NFHS ... Photos.pdf

 

Stieber wasn't pinned FYI.

 

Ok on Hanke. I wasn't making a statement, I was asking a question. It got answered.

You stated "I just don't feel that Hanke was pinned here."

 

That is a statement not a question.

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I have to assume that Ramos pinned Stieber then too, right?

As far as I'm concerned Stieber was more pinned than Hanke was, but I like pro wrestling, and according to Bob Dole that means my opinion doesn't count.

 

from the two videos (stieber and hanke): if you believe stieber was pinned and hanke wasn't no one on the board can help you understand the pinning area and what it takes to earn a fall. you have a misconception about what a fall is, and you are not willing to look at what the pinning area is or listen to the majority about when a fall is earned. these are both easy calls and i have a hard time believing that someone who watches as much wrestling as you do can't understand the application of the rules.

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Guest Hammerlock3

yeah seriously. Do you know what shoulder blades are? Or how freakishly discontorted his body would have to be for that picture to exist and his shoulders not to be down (given the ridiculous concession they aren't down in the picture)

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Guest Hammerlock3

well kessel looked for a second, checked for balls, found none and then did a lap to check the other side. Luckily he grew his balls later when it was time screw Churella with bogus stalling calls phantom takedowns.

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Not sure which memo that I've missed for 40 years, but when did the rule change to where the shoulders no longer had to be flat on the mat?

Apparently, the rule changed almost 60 years ago. The 1953 Official NCAA Wrestling Guide mentions only the shoulders:

 

RULE 14-FALLS AND NEAR FALLS

 

1.Pin Falls. Pin falls only shall count. (Flying or rolling falls shall not be considered.) Any part of both shoulders held in contact with the mat for an appreciable length of time constitutes a fall. (By an "appreciable length of time" is meant the Referee's silent count of two seconds. The two-second count shall start only after the Referee is in such position that he knows positively that both of the defensive contestant's shoulders are in contact with the mat, after which the shoulders must be held in continuous contact with the mat for two seconds before a fall shall be awarded.)

 

However, the 1954 Guide includes the scapula.

 

RULE 9 -SCORING

 

1. Falls. The area of the scapula is considered the pinning area of the body.

A. PIN FALLS ONLY SHALL COUNT. (Flying or rolling falls shall not be considered.) Any part of both shoulders or area of scapula held in contact with the mat for an appreciable length of time constitutes a fall. (By an appreciable length of time is meant the Referees silent count of two seconds or one thousand and one, one thousand and two.) The two-second count shall start only after the Referee is in such position that he knows positively that both shoulders of either wrestler are in contact with the mat, after which shoulders must be held in continuous contact with the mat for two seconds before a fall shall be awarded.

 

To make things even murkier, a typical medical definition of the shoulder indicates that it includes the scapula. So one could argue that the scapula was always part of the pinning area. In that case, the 1954 language could be viewed as clarifying the rule, rather than expanding the definition of the pinning area. That said, I suspect it acted more as the latter in actual practice.

 

Also, the scapula extends much further down the back than some realize. For example,the picture on the left is a Maori tattoo covering a Polynesian man's scapula. And the one on the right is a diagram from the Anatomy Compendium. Under the diagram the authors state that "T3 is at level of medial part of spine of scapula. T7 is at inferior angle of the scapula." The red line points to the inferior angle of the scapula, which is the end point of the scapula - or as some might say, the end point of the shoulder blade. (That said, many casual wrestling fans seem surprised that the pinning area can extend that far down a wrestler's back, IMO.)

 

7222ef0d-f17b-4c86-992a-6745edd08508_zpsa8aed8ec.jpg21dd842b-cc22-4362-ae6b-aeb91989bcec_zpsa85b3cca.jpg

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JT, falls aren't counted in 1/320 of a second ... a likely shutter speed of a camera or a paused DVR capturing even a smaller section in time. Still photos can absolutely not prove or disprove falls.

 

 

Agreed. Not sure why it's any different for the Churella/Hendricks match though. People act like Churella had him and held him there a long time. It happened at the very tale end of the period. It was very quick. I just watched it again to confirm.

 

The reality of the situation is that Hendricks wrestled for Oklahoma State, and had he wrestled for any other school, with exception to Iowa, the issue wouldn't be as at large as what it was and thus has been.

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JT, falls aren't counted in 1/320 of a second ... a likely shutter speed of a camera or a paused DVR capturing even a smaller section in time. Still photos can absolutely not prove or disprove falls.

 

 

Agreed. Not sure why it's any different for the Churella/Hendricks match though. People act like Churella had him and held him there a long time. It happened at the very tale end of the period. It was very quick. I just watched it again to confirm.

 

The reality of the situation is that Hendricks wrestled for Oklahoma State, and had he wrestled for any other school, with exception to Iowa, the issue wouldn't be as at large as what it was and thus has been.

 

You agree yet you try to prove your point with a picture of the match? Did you eat paint chips as a child?

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JT, falls aren't counted in 1/320 of a second ... a likely shutter speed of a camera or a paused DVR capturing even a smaller section in time. Still photos can absolutely not prove or disprove falls.

 

 

Agreed. Not sure why it's any different for the Churella/Hendricks match though. People act like Churella had him and held him there a long time. It happened at the very tale end of the period. It was very quick. I just watched it again to confirm.

 

The reality of the situation is that Hendricks wrestled for Oklahoma State, and had he wrestled for any other school, with exception to Iowa, the issue wouldn't be as at large as what it was and thus has been.

 

You agree yet you try to prove your point with a picture of the match? Did you eat paint chips as a child?

 

 

I'm not trying to prove that Stieber was pinned. I'm trying to prove that by looking at the picture it is no more/no less revealing than the Churella/Hendricks picture.

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You agree yet you try to prove your point with a picture of the match? Did you eat paint chips as a child?

 

 

I'm not trying to prove that Stieber was pinned. I'm trying to prove that by looking at the picture it is no more/no less revealing than the Churella/Hendricks picture.

 

So you first say

As far as I'm concerned Stieber was more pinned than Hanke was

 

Then post a picture to support your opinion

 

THEN you agree that pictures can't prove or disprove a fall occurred

 

Are you a special kind of special?

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You agree yet you try to prove your point with a picture of the match? Did you eat paint chips as a child?

 

 

I'm not trying to prove that Stieber was pinned. I'm trying to prove that by looking at the picture it is no more/no less revealing than the Churella/Hendricks picture.

 

So you first say

As far as I'm concerned Stieber was more pinned than Hanke was

 

Then post a picture to support your opinion

 

THEN you agree that pictures can't prove or disprove a fall occurred

 

Are you a special kind of special?

 

You know, Bob, you're always the first one to cry and yell foul over a "troll" (whatever that is), but could you explain to us what the purpose of your repeated posts are in this thread with JT, other than to harass and try to make yourself look good?

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BobDole - time to learn the ABC's of the issue.

 

A - Had I been refereeing the Hanke Vs Delaney match, I would not have called the fall when it was called. I would have called it about 3-4 seconds later, when Hanke's shoulders were more secured to the mat.

 

B - A large sum of other fans disagreed with me and thought that the fall was called at an appropriate time and that Hanke was pinned at that time. I can be man enough to admit that maybe my judgement on the matter was incorrect or at least unpopular.

 

C - Johnny Hendricks/Ryan Churella was brought up and many believe that Hendricks was pinned, but Kessel missed the opportunity to call it like he should have.

 

D - I believe it has more to do with the fact that Hendricks wrestled for Oklahoma State, than it does anything else. Had Hendricks wrestled for a school that was not such a rival of Iowa's and any other team that consistently fights for a national title, I don't know if the number of "HE WAS PINNED" experts would be as high as what it is. I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't be.

 

E - In my opinion Stieber's shoulders were down on the mat for as long as were Hendrick's, and he was as pinned as was Hendricks and matter of fact, he was more flat at that moment than Hanke was when Delaney had him pinned. I'm entitled to my opinion, whether you or anyone else agrees with it. If outvoted, fine. I can admit to having an unpopular view.

 

F - If the picture of Hendricks/Churella "proves" something as so many claim that it does, then why in turn doesn't the picture of "Stieber/Ramos". My point is either they both prove something or they both prove nothing. Yet, one man's something is another man's nothing, and that my friend is hypocrisy.

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BobDole - time to learn the ABC's of the issue.

 

A - Had I been refereeing the Hanke Vs Delaney match, I would not have called the fall when it was called. I would have called it about 3-4 seconds later, when Hanke's shoulders were more secured to the mat.

Hence why you are not a collegiate referee at the NCAA finals.

 

B - A large sum of other fans disagreed with me and thought that the fall was called at an appropriate time and that Hanke was pinned at that time. I can be man enough to admit that maybe my judgement on the matter was incorrect or at least unpopular.

It was incorrect if you read the rule book or at least knew the pinning are is more than just the shoulders.

 

C - Johnny Hendricks/Ryan Churella was brought up and many believe that Hendricks was pinned, but Kessel missed the opportunity to call it like he should have.

What does this have to do with anything?

 

D - I believe it has more to do with the fact that Hendricks wrestled for Oklahoma State, than it does anything else. Had Hendricks wrestled for a school that was not such a rival of Iowa's and any other team that consistently fights for a national title, I don't know if the number of "HE WAS PINNED" experts would be as high as what it is. I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't be.

What does this have to do with anything?

 

E - In my opinion Stieber's shoulders were down on the mat for as long as were Hendrick's, and he was as pinned as was Hendricks and matter of fact, he was more flat at that moment than Hanke was when Delaney had him pinned. I'm entitled to my opinion, whether you or anyone else agrees with it. If outvoted, fine. I can admit to having an unpopular view.

You obviously only tend to read the posts that suit your opinion. Read up on the pinning area and what constitutes a fall.

If you don't see the difference in the pin or no pin of Hanke and Stieber you need your eyes checked. You also might want to brush up on your wrestling rules. You seem to not know much about what constitutes a fall.

 

F - If the picture of Hendricks/Churella "proves" something as so many claim that it does, then why in turn doesn't the picture of "Stieber/Ramos". My point is either they both prove something or they both prove nothing. Yet, one man's something is another man's nothing, and that my friend is hypocrisy.

So instead of claiming that a picture doesn't prove anything as you supposedly believe, you post a picture to help "prove" that Stieber was pinned. You aren't making much sense there little Ban Basketball.

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Hence why you are not a collegiate referee at the NCAA finals. - Agreed, :)

 

 

It was incorrect if you read the rule book or at least knew the pinning are is more than just the shoulders I can admit that then. Matter of fact, I did.

 

 

What does this have to do with anything? - and you wanna ask me if I'm paying attention??????

 

 

 

 

You obviously only tend to read the posts that suit your opinion. Read up on the pinning area and what constitutes a fall.

If you don't see the difference in the pin or no pin of Hanke and Stieber you need your eyes checked. You also might want to brush up on your wrestling rules. You seem to not know much about what constitutes a fall. - ok

 

 

So instead of claiming that a picture doesn't prove anything as you supposedly believe, you post a picture to help "prove" that Stieber was pinned. You aren't making much sense there little Ban Basketball. - For the 3rd time, I posted it to show that he was no more/no less pinned than was Hendricks by the picture posted of him and Churella.

 

Little Banbasketball? What are you Mrs. Ace?

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I'm not sure we can find anyone better suited in giving his expert opinion on what is a pin or not; as the Iowa wrestling high school archives reveal that JohnnyThompsonnum1 was pinned numerous times, in a variety of a combinations. His kryptonite was the half nelson as he just couldn't master the concept of "looking away."

 

Next topic on JT1's agenda to discuss is, "The art of bridging. Impress the crowd by showing how hard you are willing to fight."

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