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Matburn155

Coaching Wrestling

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I never speak in absolutes. Some guys fall outside of the vast majority. However, as a DII coach, he popped out 17 AA's in 5 years. That was enough to impress the AD at a school where the program was in the ****. He wasnt getting elite athletes for a long, long time at that program, and used his experience and intelligence to slowly build up a good program. It almost never, ever works that way and that is for a reason.

 

I am not sure I agree. I think the reason it doesn't happen more often is because we are impatient. You often see basketball and football programs in the mid tier that have coaches there for a while before they start putting solid teams together.

 

We elect to go with top athletes as head coaches and some of them pan out and others don't. I think we would be better served to hire coaches who had solid coaching results as head coaches rather than guys with credentials as an athlete who have been an assistant coach.

 

Build a program the right way takes time. Even with you (and many other people) citing the ease of recruitment for a coach who had credentials as an athlete or coach, even then it takes a long time to build a program. It took Minnesota, Cornell, Edinboro, many years to build their programs to the levels they are now at just as it has taken CMU and Missouri years to build their programs. Looking at just a few of these examples, it leads me to believe that it takes 10 years for a program to start to show where they will be with that coach at the helm. I have long advocated that fans and administrators be patient with their hires. I have always said 5 years is what a coach needs to get their athletes and understand their situation.

 

When we look at programs after 10 years, we find that the credentials they had previously as an assistant or as an athlete are insignificant in the process and even if you assume that one program got a head start since they could land better recruits earlier on the tenure based on the credentials as an athlete, I think it becomes a wash as time passes.

 

I don't look for quick fixes that promise big returns in the first year; I am interested in coaches that build programs slowly and do it in a sustainable manner.

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I don't look for quick fixes that promise big returns in the first year; I am interested in coaches that build programs slowly and do it in a sustainable manner.

 

That might be you, but as an athlete, you dont want a team that will be good in ten years. You want a guy who can get you to the finals within 4 or less. Its much, much easier to take a gamble on a new coach as an AD. You have very little to lose by giving a guy with a good head on his shoulders 5 years. As an athlete, it could be a death sentence.

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I don't look for quick fixes that promise big returns in the first year; I am interested in coaches that build programs slowly and do it in a sustainable manner.

 

That might be you, but as an athlete, you dont want a team that will be good in ten years. You want a guy who can get you to the finals within 4 or less. Its much, much easier to take a gamble on a new coach as an AD. You have very little to lose by giving a guy with a good head on his shoulders 5 years. As an athlete, it could be a death sentence.

 

That is a fair point. I was thinking from an administrator position.

 

With that said, I think, any coach that is able to get athletes to over perform will begin to attract better and better talent which they can then coach up a level. This was the case with all of the programs I mentioned.

 

So as an athlete I would be more inclined to look for a coach that has built a good room of athletes and has athletes over performing their recruitment rankings than I would look for a coach with past credentials who has landed a few solid recruits.

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So what is the reason that DI athletic directors generally ignore successful head coaches from DII and DIII? Because those coaches would not excite the boosters? Or is there some other reason?

 

Like stated before from some other posters, I am not sure very many successful DII/III coaches apply for DI positions. Most likely if they go up a pay scale then they have to vie for the job against highly qualified candidates that have proven results and major recruiting power. If they apply for lower level DI jobs, its most likely level down or straight across in pay. Why leave a comfortable and stable position of success to take a gamble at DI for less pay? These are just guesses as I have no idea how many successful lower level coaches try for jobs at powerhouse schools.

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So what is the reason that DI athletic directors generally ignore successful head coaches from DII and DIII? Because those coaches would not excite the boosters? Or is there some other reason?

 

Like stated before from some other posters, I am not sure very many successful DII/III coaches apply for DI positions. Most likely if they go up a pay scale then they have to vie for the job against highly qualified candidates that have proven results and major recruiting power. If they apply for lower level DI jobs, its most likely level down or straight across in pay. Why leave a comfortable and stable position of success to take a gamble at DI for less pay? These are just guesses as I have no idea how many successful lower level coaches try for jobs at powerhouse schools.

 

Just strikes me as odd that there are very few moves from DII and DIII head coaches up to DI. In football, you see the occasional coach start in the high school ranks and end up in the NFL (Charlie Weis, for example). There are more jobs in that industry, but still. . . .

 

Charlie Weis didn't have to put on pads and go against players at any point, which plays into things, I guess.

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Very insightful posts by pinnum, oldirty, and especially bigapple's most recent one. Thanks guys. You have all given me food for thought. I'm still pretty hard nosed and think I can bring a high school team to prominence, as a head coach, and have success at a lower level college, despite never even wrestling in college. It's not that I wasn't good enough to wrestle in college, but I came down with a life threatening illness as a high school senior and ended up wrestling for my life instead of for a school.

 

BTW I am in no way closing this thread. Keep it coming!

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Very insightful posts by pinnum, oldirty, and especially bigapple's most recent one. Thanks guys. You have all given me food for thought. I'm still pretty hard nosed and think I can bring a high school team to prominence, as a head coach, and have success at a lower level college, despite never even wrestling in college. It's not that I wasn't good enough to wrestle in college, but I came down with a life threatening illness as a high school senior and ended up wrestling for my life instead of for a school.

 

BTW I am in no way closing this thread. Keep it coming!

 

Highschool and college are way different. A head coach in highschool who can run a tight ship with a successful program structure will run circles around a college stud who doesnt have the feel for kids wrestling. Recruiting and high level technique are non issues in HS; something that is mandatory in college. You will do fine brother!

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