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Coach_J

Medal Count: Boys vs. Girls

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The women are to be congratulated for their efforts as well as their results.

 

For our men, as long as they wrestled their best I am satisfied. Would be better with more hardware to complement Burroughs, but if they honestly did their best that is all one can ask for. Now we have to get ready to spend more time figuring out how to get the team members on a higher level so they can get to the medal rounds and win.

 

The basic solution is simple. Put Dan Gable in charge of International Wrestling for the USA. At least in Freestyle and most likely both men and women. One man with the authority like Kenneshaw Mountain Landis had over major league baseball after the Black Sox scandal. Gable will produce results and all will know who they are dealing with. His history of getting more from wrestlers and support people shows he is the man for the job. The current committee of clowns is not getting the job done.

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i dont know if any kind of shake up is necessary. that would imply firings and a changes of personal no? but who would be shaken up and for what cause?

 

its not like the wrestlers drastically under preformed. in just about every instance our guys got beat but superior or equal caliber wrestlers.

 

doesnt mean we shouldnt look for ways to improve. you can always improve, and USA wrestling could always be allocating resources more efficiently. but an unwarranted shakes up could be counter productive. when the sales staff has a disappointing quarter you dont go firing the entire accounting department.

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I tossed the subject out to see what the thoughts were. Overall, the women showed the most solid team preparation. Freestyle, a champ and some who lost in the medal blood round, but a substandard performance. Greco, well, four years in a row with nothing doing and there's more than enough evidence that things are broken (although impressed by Theilke). One substance replacement (Esco for Blanc) and another weight fiasco with Lester--not good on a resume. I'm really tired of hearing guys who go one and out or 1-1 and saying they're right there with the best in the world. Win a medal or make the medal round and you can say that--otherwise, shut up and improve before you open your trap again.

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Its much easier to medal when you are wrestling opponents with less than 10 years on the mat in most cases.

With that being true, we have even more evidence that change is needed. As we are doing it, we are not reaching levels we used to expect in the past. So what exactly needs to change?

 

The women are on a fairly level playing field. Women's wrestling is a relatively new phenomenon so every country has basically had the same starting point. We are not the best, but we are competitive and within striking distance of being the best. We have fallen way off in freestyle and in greco we aren't even in the discussion.

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You are completely missing the point. We had an off year. Thats what happens with these blind draws with repachage that Fila has us doing. It happened to Russia last year as well. Where we're your cries last year, when the girls had an off year and only brought home one bronze?

 

Furthermore, what do you propose we do? Just get rid of Zeke Jones and company. Who do propose replace them?

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Are we supposed to be content with one medal in FS and Greco combined???? Even in a down year the Russians don't do this poorly, repechage and blind draw and all. The Russians, Iranians, Turks, etc., are incredibly consistent--we aren't. I saw great results from Korea, Japan, Armenia, etc., countries without our population base or resources, and they totally outperformed us. If you're okay with that, God bless you. Even in a bad year, one medal in two styles is beyond horrible for a wealthy nation of 300 million people that has won world team titles in both styles. Just my opinion. In the original post, I posed a question and did not call for anyone's firing. And firing anyone does no good if you just replace him with a clone.

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Well congrats to the girls. If anything it may attract more girls to our sport. Which if we need to add weight classes that may actually help. As far as our guys go I looked at our matches and I really think money, more coaches, possibly improvements at the facilities, and maybe more of them. But I really think that the key is how guys do internationally. Yes winning the National Tournament or world or Olympic trials is important but it just isn't enough. The reason I feel that way is some guys can dominate domestically but are unable to do so internationally. And since we are competing internationally, we need to factor that in. In FS we had Escobedo at 55 we did pretty good going three and two taking 5th and he was our No# 2. Humpreys was close but managed to get overtaken by the Iranian. I am not sure though if Kennedy might have been a better choice. Yes you can argue the Humpreys won the trials but I remember that Kennedy did pretty well internationally this past year. Metcalf, I am not sure, what the deal is, he was 2nd at Yarygin, and seemed to be on his way. Yes he got a bad draw, and it may be that he will keep at it until he finally prevails. But it also might be that the cut down to 145 has taken some of his horsepower away, the same horsepower he had in college. Burroughs, well were looking at greatness. To bad we can't clone him. Gavin, was our guy but I think we would've been better off with Foster. Bergman, we'll I just don't see him being the guy. Maybe he lacks the killer instinct. Dlagnev is close, I think if he can add some weapons to his arsenal it should get him over the top. In Greco, Mango did well he won three matches and lost a tough one in the Bronze medal match. But he isn't that far away. Theilke looked tough and made a decent run, he also lost a tough one. But overall I thought both Mango and Theilke looked good. Coleman, well he is our No#2 and I am not sure how much time he had to prepare. Bisek, and Holm, both have shown they can win matches on the world level. I don't know what it will take to be able to put more wins together. Williams went one and done, and I am not to familiar with him so perhaps as the year progresses and he competes more might be more of an indicator. Smith also did pretty well winning two matches not bad for his first World's. I am disappointed that we didn't do better. But I do see promise is some of our individuals.

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Men's Freestyle is the most evolved and developed of all three wrestling divisions historically. U.S. women in the workplace as well as the mat have a leg up on their international competition thanks to American culture in general. American is the melting pot of the world and gender is part of the equation. I think the international competition for women is not as great or as evolved as international men's freestyle competition. I think U.S. men's Greco simply suffers from lack of interest. The U.S. is far too entrenched with collegiate and high school wrestling to appreciate the value of Greco (I for one am included in that group).

 

I truly thought the U.S. Men's Freestyle wrestling team was a quality team this year. I think the competition is very tight and the U.S. this time around got the short end of lady luck. I think most would agree that Humphrey (60kg), Metcalf (66kg), and Bergman/Varner (96kg) are world class and can beat anyone on a given day. Unfortunately this year just not on the day that counted most. I don't think the U.S. team was not at its full potential at 55 (Escobedo) and 84 (Gavin). Of course Burroughs at 74 was outstanding. I think Delagnev is a stud and is close to medaling at 120kg.

 

Certainly we would all like to see more than one favorite to win Gold and thought really thought Metcalf was ready to fulfill his goal.

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Well as far as one blogger was saying the women are J.V.'s that really does not matter. The IOC wants more women in wrestling. And if we want to get back to eight weight classes for the guys does it really matter if the gals aren't that good. The bigger picture is that with eight classes for FS and GR it's better for the kids who are, looking to compete. Also more classes for the girls means more girls wrestling ( hopefully anyway) which means more families are involved, more fans, more money, more support. Better for us all around. Eventually the girls will become better as time goes on anyway.

 

As far as Gable being named as the FS coach, I am not so sure if that is doable. He is getting older and I am unsure about his health being the best. It might be better that he acts like a G.M. or an advisor. I wish he would take over FILA that is what everyone needs. But maybe a new coach or two might be helpful. I really think most of our problem is our selection process.

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Good point de4857. I think one of our problems is our selection process. Everyone spends their time training to beat Americans just to make the team, and aren't properly prepared for all the various styles and match tactics that the world stage brings.

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The women actually fell short of their potential. Could have had 5 medals and 2 finalist. They could have won the title this year. Our greco team was young and inexperienced with a last minute change at 66kg. I told my wife we wouldn't win a medal in greco this year if Spencer didn't pull through. Our freestyle team had a few things not go our way, but we had a solid team put together. Escobedo actually wrestled really well in getting 5th. I support seeding or at the very least wrestle backs to one third place.

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Are we supposed to be content with one medal in FS and Greco combined???? Even in a down year the Russians don't do this poorly, repechage and blind draw and all. The Russians, Iranians, Turks, etc., are incredibly consistent--we aren't. I saw great results from Korea, Japan, Armenia, etc., countries without our population base or resources, and they totally outperformed us. If you're okay with that, God bless you. Even in a bad year, one medal in two styles is beyond horrible for a wealthy nation of 300 million people that has won world team titles in both styles. Just my opinion. In the original post, I posed a question and did not call for anyone's firing. And firing anyone does no good if you just replace him with a clone.

 

i think youre judging the US performance too harshly. just looking freestyle results from the 2011 & 2013 world championships and 2012 Olympics

 

USA: 4G, 0S, 2B

TURKEY: 0G, 1S, 2B

JAPAN: 1G, 1S, 1B

ARMENIA: 1G, 0S, 0B

N KOREA: 0G, 0S, 1B

S KOREA: 0G, 0S, 0B

 

Only Iran and Russia have separated themselves from the rest of the countries by having medal threats 2 deep or more at just about every weight. also of those countries, only Armenia is comparatively small.

 

getting a medal with only 7 weights is tough. you need to be both lucky and good. getting up to Iran and Russia's level is going to take a lot of time and resources. it should be the goal, but its easier said then done.

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Are we supposed to be content with one medal in FS and Greco combined???? Even in a down year the Russians don't do this poorly, repechage and blind draw and all. The Russians, Iranians, Turks, etc., are incredibly consistent--we aren't. I saw great results from Korea, Japan, Armenia, etc., countries without our population base or resources, and they totally outperformed us. If you're okay with that, God bless you. Even in a bad year, one medal in two styles is beyond horrible for a wealthy nation of 300 million people that has won world team titles in both styles. Just my opinion. In the original post, I posed a question and did not call for anyone's firing. And firing anyone does no good if you just replace him with a clone.

 

i think youre judging the US performance too harshly. just looking freestyle results from the 2011 & 2013 world championships and 2012 Olympics

 

USA: 4G, 0S, 2B

TURKEY: 0G, 1S, 2B

JAPAN: 1G, 1S, 1B

ARMENIA: 1G, 0S, 0B

N KOREA: 0G, 0S, 1B

S KOREA: 0G, 0S, 0B

 

Only Iran and Russia have separated themselves from the rest of the countries by having medal threats 2 deep or more at just about every weight. also of those countries, only Armenia is comparatively small.

 

getting a medal with only 7 weights is tough. you need to be both lucky and good. getting up to Iran and Russia's level is going to take a lot of time and resources. it should be the goal, but its easier said then done.

What about Azerbaijan and Georgia?

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In the same time, Georgia has 2 silvers and 6 bronzes and Azerbaijan has 3 golds, 1 silver and 4 bronzes. They're not at the level of Iran or Russia, but you could argue that they've done better than the US over the last three years, with a far smaller wrestling population.

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