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mspart

Questions for Stan Dziedzic

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amazing what can get done on this dopey message board and what can't get done by an entire governing body.

 

Quanon and Ray (and some others), really appreciate your PhD - like efforts. Some great thoughts above.

 

And to Adam (tirapell): Although I'm not surprised, I was really impressed by your knowledge and explanations of folk and freestyle wrestling rules on the other thread. You really understand the spirit of the rules. IMO, you'd be a huge asset to FILA's rules committee.

 

Heck, after seeing all the rules FILA came up with (over the past few decades), I'd put you 3 guys on the FILA committee in a heartbeat. Again, just my opinion, but I sense that you guys would make the sport oh, so marketable. And the fans and wrestlers around the world love your rules and formats. Just my opinion.

 

(And again, I'm not bashing Stan Dziedzic - I really respect that he posts here with us.)

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How's this? It evenly distributes the load.

 

g1 0.666 0.333    
g2 0.666 0.333    
g3 0.666 0.333    
g4 0.333 0.333 0.333   
g5 0.333 0.333 0.333   
g6 0.333 0.333 0.333   
w1       0.333 0.333 0.333  
w2       0.333 0.333 0.333  
w3       0.333 0.333 0.333  
w4             0.333 0.333 0.333 
w5             0.333 0.333 0.333 
w6             0.333 0.333 0.333 
f1                   0.333 0.333 0.333
f1                   0.333 0.333 0.333
f3                   0.333 0.333 0.333
f4                         0.333 0.666
f5                         0.333 0.666
f6                         0.333 0.666
finals 0     3     3     3     3     3
load   1     1     1     1     1     1

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How's this? It evenly distributes the load & eliminates gaps. (And all the men's freestyle finals are on the final day!)

 

day    1     2     3     4     5     6
g1 0.666 0.333 ----- ----- ----- -----
g2 0.666 0.333 ----- ----- ----- -----
g3 0.666 0.333 ----- ----- ----- -----
g4 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- ----- -----
g5 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- ----- -----
g6 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- ----- -----
w1 ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- -----
w2 ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- -----
w3 ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- -----
w4 ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 -----
w5 ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 -----
w6 ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 -----
f1 ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333
f2 ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333
f3 ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333
f4 ----- ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.666
f5 ----- ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.666
f6 ----- ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.666
finals 0     3     3     3     3     6
load   1     1     1     1     1     1

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How's this? It evenly distributes the load & eliminates gaps. (And all the men's freestyle finals are on the final day!)

 

day    1     2     3     4     5     6
g1 0.666 0.333 ----- ----- ----- -----
g2 0.666 0.333 ----- ----- ----- -----
g3 0.666 0.333 ----- ----- ----- -----
g4 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- ----- -----
g5 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- ----- -----
g6 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- ----- -----
w1 ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- -----
w2 ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- -----
w3 ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 ----- -----
w4 ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 -----
w5 ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 -----
w6 ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333 -----
f1 ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333
f2 ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333
f3 ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.333 0.333
f4 ----- ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.666
f5 ----- ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.666
f6 ----- ----- ----- ----- 0.333 0.666
finals 0     3     3     3     3     6
load   1     1     1     1     1     1

 

The symmetry of it is pleasing. I'm thinking that, to the extent that operational constraints allow, distributing the finals evenly is more important than distributing the match load evenly. Without question, some days will sell out; the goal is to have all days sell out. If there was no cap on the number of spectators, the spectacle of the final day in your plan would certainly pack them in. (A argument for it, though, even under the current circumstances: it'd make great TV.)

 

Splitting the 2-day format between freestyle and Greco, I think you'd also run into a political issue, to which Stan alluded: how do you pick which weights get the shorter tournament, and how do you get people to agree to this? I'm not sure that's insoluble, but it does seem a tricky point.

 

You might, at least, soften the blow a bit by distributing the 2-day loads more evenly. E.g.

 

day    1     2     3     4     5     6
g1 0.555 0.444 ----- ----- ----- -----
g2 0.555 0.444 ----- ----- ----- -----
g3 0.555 0.444 ----- ----- ----- -----
g4 0.444 0.222 0.333 ----- ----- -----
g5 0.444 0.222 0.333 ----- ----- -----
g6 0.444 0.222 0.333 ----- ----- -----

 

Overall, good effort. I don't think that optimizing for load balance first is the trick though, unless the venue format is just so darned strict that you can't do otherwise.

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Sorry if this has already been answered. Why can't they add at least one mat for the prelims? Would like to see more mats for prelims and take away mats for champ rounds..just like they do for most tournaments in the US.

Would the IOC object to adding one mat and earlier starts ?

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Sometimes the solutions are too simple. There are 3 styles with 6 weights per style, 3 mats, and 6 days and 12 sessions. Those numbers are all either divisible by or are multipliers of each other.

 

If the goal is to have a finals on days 2-6, why not simply take the morning session from Day 6 and create an afternoon session for day 2? Then you can dedicate one mat per style each day. Same number of sessions, finals on days 2-6.

 

Day 1 morning - prelims for 1st weight in each style

Day 1 Evening - prelims for 2nd weight in each style

Day 2 morning - prelims for 3rd weigh in each style

Day 2 afternoon - finals for 1st weigh in each style

Day 2 evening - finals for 2nd weight in each style

Day 3 morning - prelims for 4th weight in each style

Day 3 evening - finals for 3rd weight in each style

Day 4 morning - prelims for 5th weight in each style

Day 4 evening - finals for 4th weight in each style

Day 5 morning - prelims for 6th weight in each style

Day 5 evening - finals for 5th weight in each style

Day 6 evening - finals for 6th weight in each style

 

Finals sessions could be on one mat alternating styles.

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Just 2 more cents on this topic. In all fairness to Stan and FILA, here are 4 things I did like at the 2013 World's:

 

1. The takedown/pass by rule change right before the tournament. (Better late than never.)

 

2. Streamed live on internet.

 

3. "UFC like" introductions for medalists.

 

4. The Rocky theme song during medal presentations.

 

Hope all the other stuff mentioned on this thread eventually gets fixed.

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I plugged in the details. You're not going to be able to read them in this image, but I encourage you to take my word for it. This would allow for full wrestlebacks and unlimited overtime.

 

I'll ask if there's any way that we can get the image limits banished from the forums.

 

In the meantime, here you go:

2ylpyso.jpg

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I plugged in the details. You're not going to be able to read them in this image, but I encourage you to take my word for it. This would allow for full wrestlebacks and unlimited overtime.

 

I'll ask if there's any way that we can get the image limits banished from the forums.

 

In the meantime, here you go:

2ylpyso.jpg

 

Put it in Google Drive spreadsheet and make it public. You can post the link here.

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Sometimes the solutions are too simple. There are 3 styles with 6 weights per style, 3 mats, and 6 days and 12 sessions. Those numbers are all either divisible by or are multipliers of each other.

 

If the goal is to have a finals on days 2-6, why not simply take the morning session from Day 6 and create an afternoon session for day 2? Then you can dedicate one mat per style each day. Same number of sessions, finals on days 2-6.

 

Day 1 morning - prelims for 1st weight in each style

Day 1 Evening - prelims for 2nd weight in each style

Day 2 morning - prelims for 3rd weigh in each style

Day 2 afternoon - finals for 1st weigh in each style

Day 2 evening - finals for 2nd weight in each style

Day 3 morning - prelims for 4th weight in each style

Day 3 evening - finals for 3rd weight in each style

Day 4 morning - prelims for 5th weight in each style

Day 4 evening - finals for 4th weight in each style

Day 5 morning - prelims for 6th weight in each style

Day 5 evening - finals for 5th weight in each style

Day 6 evening - finals for 6th weight in each style

 

Finals sessions could be on one mat alternating styles.

 

We've been working on the premise that a three-day format is optimal.

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Why the devil must international clocks count up?

 

That's not just a "it's bad, because it's not the way we do it" question; if a clock counts down, anybody watching understands when action ends: 0. Counting up to some point in the future, you have to know how long matches last (lately).

 

Which, really, is far too characteristic of FILA's outlook: we understand what we mean, and we can explain it perfectly well. And you should too; we explained it at the rules clinic this morning...

 

Agreed.

 

And not that it's relevant, but the clock counts down to zero in the UFC.

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Why the devil must international clocks count up?

 

That's not just a "it's bad, because it's not the way we do it" question; if a clock counts down, anybody watching understands when action ends: 0. Counting up to some point in the future, you have to know how long matches last (lately).

 

Which, really, is far too characteristic of FILA's outlook: we understand what we mean, and we can explain it perfectly well. And you should too; we explained it at the rules clinic this morning...

 

Agreed.

 

And not that it's relevant, but the clock counts down to zero in the UFC.

 

Actually it is for the official scorer so he can note the time when a pin occurred, or some other random scoring situation. :lol: Bollocks to anyone else.

 

mspart

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Why the devil must international clocks count up?

 

That's not just a "it's bad, because it's not the way we do it" question; if a clock counts down, anybody watching understands when action ends: 0. Counting up to some point in the future, you have to know how long matches last (lately).

 

Which, really, is far too characteristic of FILA's outlook: we understand what we mean, and we can explain it perfectly well. And you should too; we explained it at the rules clinic this morning...

 

Agreed.

 

And not that it's relevant, but the clock counts down to zero in the UFC.

 

Actually it is for the official scorer so he can note the time when a pin occurred, or some other random scoring situation. :lol: Bollocks to anyone else.

 

mspart

-----

 

yes... the highly advanced math required to do a subtraction makes it too difficult to have a count down clock

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quanon wrote,

Below is a potential schedule that allows for three day Olympic tournaments for both men's and women's freestyle, with full wrestle backs and overtime. Three day tournaments would allow each wrestler to wrestle only a few times per day, with lengthy rest periods between matches.

In this scenario, Greco-Roman has a one day tournament, to distinguish it from freestyle. Two finals take place on each day of the eight day tournament, except for the last day, which has four finals.

 

I apologize for the sloppy formatting -- I can't figure out how to fix it.

 

One insurmountable hurdle: As it already has been determined & presented to the FILA Bureau in Budapest, RIO has wrestling scheduled for 6 days [2 GR, 2 FW & 2 FS] in a venue shared by other sports in each of the other days???

 

It seems like a lot of these problems (too few weight classes, not enough time in a day to do full repechage, not enough rest between matches, two bronze medal winners) could easily be solved by reducing the bracket size. Is this an option?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing 3 or 4 regional Olympic qualifers (Pan-Am, Asia-Pacific, European, etc.) each qualify 3 or 4 competitors each for the Games. Has this ever been done?

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