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Roger Maris does not hold the single season home run record. Even in baseball, a sport in which fans and journalists are rigid against drug use (compared to the NFL for example). Those ahead of him may have asterisks, but they were not erased from the record books and replaced by Maris into first place. Not a perfect analogy since Maris hit 61 under different circumstances, not in a tournament against those same competitors, but you get the point.

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i've heard that in Europe, Leipold is considered by many to be the Olympic champion. Not sure how true that is. In that particular case, it would have made sense to wrestle off Slay and Moon for the gold medal, since both of them lost to Leipold.

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Roger Maris does not hold the single season home run record. Even in baseball, a sport in which fans and journalists are rigid against drug use (compared to the NFL for example). Those ahead of him may have asterisks, but they were not erased from the record books and replaced by Maris into first place. Not a perfect analogy since Maris hit 61 under different circumstances, not in a tournament against those same competitors, but you get the point.

 

Excellent point. One explanation I've heard about why baseball players who are known to have doped are not erased from the record books is because their records are tied in with pitching stats. Meaning they'd have to go back an re-write all the stats for all the pitchers they ever went up against during their career, not to mention all the other numerous stats kept in baseball.

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i've heard that in Europe, Leipold is considered by many to be the Olympic champion.

 

Leipold is the olympic champion. He's just not the olympic gold medalist.

His name also appears on a plaque on the wall in Jadidi's office. There is a plaque for all 2nd place finishers down in the ladies room.

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Moon would have beat Slay

 

Here's an undeniable point.

 

In a race such as Tour de France all the competitors are on the road at once trying to win.

 

In wrestling tournaments there are brackets and not everyone has a chance to compete against each other.

 

In the case of Leipold, he was separated from Slay in the brackets but had to beat multiple time world medalist Moon to make the finals. When Leipold was stripped of his medal, they effectively moved everyone up a notch.

 

I think this is unfair because Moon never had the chance to wrestle Slay.

 

The results make it seem as if Leipold never even wrestled in the tournament. So, if this is the case, based upon those brackets, Moon would have made the finals against Slay and who knows what would have happened?

 

Why does Slay get to become the Gold medalist when Moon was equally deserving? Simply because of how the brackets were set up?

 

Just doesn't seem right.

 

And I don't want to hear all the "well Slay beat Saitiev, so he deserves it" crap. The recent matches of Saitiev/Leipold & Saitiev/Moon were extremely close. If Saitiev was having an off day, isn't it entirely possible that both Leipold or Moon could have beaten him as well?

 

I know that you wouldn't simply be able to have Slay & Moon wrestle off 2 months after the Olympics to determine the rightful Gold Medalist (though I suppose it is possible). So the right thing to do would be to leave the #1 spot blank and keep Slay & Moon at silver & bronze, respectively.

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The Tour De France/UCI is inconsistent. Oscar Pereiro was declared the winner of the 2006 Tour after Landis was disqualified for doping. Andy Schleck was declared winner of the 2010 tour after Contador tested positive. Also, in 1996 Riis admitted doping, but they still keep him as champion. I think virtually every Tour victory is tainted.

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The Tour De France/UCI is inconsistent. Oscar Pereiro was declared the winner of the 2006 Tour after Landis was disqualified for doping. Andy Schleck was declared winner of the 2010 tour after Contador tested positive. Also, in 1996 Riis admitted doping, but they still keep him as champion. I think virtually every Tour victory is tainted.

 

This.

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Poor Moon, he loses to Slay and Sanderson in the Olympic finals in 00 and 04. I really think he would have beat Slay. Always a bridesmaid Moon was. Moon lost two 1 point matches to Saitev at worlds.

 

Quit trolling. He never lost to Slay in 2000. He finished behind him. Also if you had a wrestle off you couldn't call it Olympic anything since the Olympics had concluded. Go troll elsewhere.

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Poor Moon, he loses to Slay and Sanderson in the Olympic finals in 00 and 04. I really think he would have beat Slay. Always a bridesmaid Moon was. Moon lost two 1 point matches to Saitev at worlds.

 

It evened out for him. He couldn't repeat the win over Sajidov in 10 lifetimes

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Moon would have beat Slay

 

Here's an undeniable point.

 

In a race such as Tour de France all the competitors are on the road at once trying to win.

 

In wrestling tournaments there are brackets and not everyone has a chance to compete against each other.

 

In the case of Leipold, he was separated from Slay in the brackets but had to beat multiple time world medalist Moon to make the finals. When Leipold was stripped of his medal, they effectively moved everyone up a notch.

 

I think this is unfair because Moon never had the chance to wrestle Slay.

 

The results make it seem as if Leipold never even wrestled in the tournament. So, if this is the case, based upon those brackets, Moon would have made the finals against Slay and who knows what would have happened?

 

Why does Slay get to become the Gold medalist when Moon was equally deserving? Simply because of how the brackets were set up?

 

Just doesn't seem right.

 

And I don't want to hear all the "well Slay beat Saitiev, so he deserves it" crap. The recent matches of Saitiev/Leipold & Saitiev/Moon were extremely close. If Saitiev was having an off day, isn't it entirely possible that both Leipold or Moon could have beaten him as well?

 

I know that you wouldn't simply be able to have Slay & Moon wrestle off 2 months after the Olympics to determine the rightful Gold Medalist (though I suppose it is possible). So the right thing to do would be to leave the #1 spot blank and keep Slay & Moon at silver & bronze, respectively.

 

Doesn't Leipold's cheating actually effect everyone in the brackets? What about all the other guys that Leipold beat? What should happen to them? In your scenario, there's no good reason for Slay to earn a silver while Moon gets a bronze. Why should Moon have a lower placement than Slay? In reality, having a bronze rather than a silver could have cost Moon a lot of money.

 

Leipold's mere presence in the tournament potentially changes everything if the brackets are randomly drawn. There's a chance Saitiev could have won if Leipold would have been found out prior to the tournament.

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Poor Moon, he loses to Slay and Sanderson in the Olympic finals in 00 and 04. I really think he would have beat Slay. Always a bridesmaid Moon was. Moon lost two 1 point matches to Saitev at worlds.

 

It evened out for him. He couldn't repeat the win over Sajidov in 10 lifetimes

 

 

That was a huge upset. Trapped arm gut is deadly! After the biggest upset of the 04 games he then loses to Sanderson, like I said poor guy.

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Moon would have beat Slay

 

Here's an undeniable point.

 

In a race such as Tour de France all the competitors are on the road at once trying to win.

 

In wrestling tournaments there are brackets and not everyone has a chance to compete against each other.

 

In the case of Leipold, he was separated from Slay in the brackets but had to beat multiple time world medalist Moon to make the finals. When Leipold was stripped of his medal, they effectively moved everyone up a notch.

 

I think this is unfair because Moon never had the chance to wrestle Slay.

 

The results make it seem as if Leipold never even wrestled in the tournament. So, if this is the case, based upon those brackets, Moon would have made the finals against Slay and who knows what would have happened?

 

Why does Slay get to become the Gold medalist when Moon was equally deserving? Simply because of how the brackets were set up?

 

Just doesn't seem right.

 

And I don't want to hear all the "well Slay beat Saitiev, so he deserves it" crap. The recent matches of Saitiev/Leipold & Saitiev/Moon were extremely close. If Saitiev was having an off day, isn't it entirely possible that both Leipold or Moon could have beaten him as well?

 

I know that you wouldn't simply be able to have Slay & Moon wrestle off 2 months after the Olympics to determine the rightful Gold Medalist (though I suppose it is possible). So the right thing to do would be to leave the #1 spot blank and keep Slay & Moon at silver & bronze, respectively.

 

Doesn't Leipold's cheating actually effect everyone in the brackets? What about all the other guys that Leipold beat? What should happen to them? In your scenario, there's no good reason for Slay to earn a silver while Moon gets a bronze. Why should Moon have a lower placement than Slay? In reality, having a bronze rather than a silver could have cost Moon a lot of money.

 

Leipold's mere presence in the tournament potentially changes everything if the brackets are randomly drawn. There's a chance Saitiev could have won if Leipold would have been found out prior to the tournament.

 

Why in the heck can they not find out before they step on the mat if someone is juicing??????

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Poor Moon, he loses to Slay and Sanderson in the Olympic finals in 00 and 04. I really think he would have beat Slay. Always a bridesmaid Moon was. Moon lost two 1 point matches to Saitev at worlds.

 

It evened out for him. He couldn't repeat the win over Sajidov in 10 lifetimes

 

 

That was a huge upset. Trapped arm gut is deadly! After the biggest upset of the 04 games he then loses to Sanderson, like I said poor guy.

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Given his response at the end of the match, I wonder if Slay already knew he was wrestling someone pumped up on illegal drugs:

I think Slay was more upset about this:

 

***

 

As Slay and Leipold locked into the clinch that starts the second period when there is no score, Slay apparently disregarded instructions to position his shoulder the way the referee wanted.

 

After several seconds, the referee abruptly stopped, cautioned Slay and called him for an illegal hold, giving Leipold a 2-0 lead. Leipold was later given another point when Slay was cautioned again, apparently for grabbing the hands as Leipold applied a gut wrench. Leipold’s only point on a move was a takedown with 5:11 gone.

 

Scoring decisions are not always explained at the Olympics, not even to the wrestlers and coaches.

 

“I’ve got news for you, I’ve been doing this for 10 years and it’s confusing to me, too,” U.S. coach Bruce Burnett said. “I saw one wrestler aggressive and trying to score and another not being aggressive at all. I saw a lot of points going up, but not a lot being scored.”

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The year before the Olympics, Moon lost to Sajidov 3-0 in OT. Saying that he could never beat Sajidov again is unfounded. There is some serious underestimating of Moon going on, maybe because he didn't look great against Sanderson. Maybe the nerves got to him, or he had trouble with Sanderson's length or something, but Moon ws a killer in other matches. As q_s mentions, he was very tight with Saitiev (lost in the finals on a TD at the buzzer at the worlds if I remember corectly).

 

It's kind of funny that both Jadidi and Leipold won their world titles in someone controversial manner- Leipold on the aforementioned caution points, and Jadidi on a questionable escape point.

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