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GranbyTroll

What's your area's name for this move?

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Caldwell hit a headlock on Metcalf in the NCAA finals. It is good to have some long shot moves in your arsenal (not that Caldwell was in desperation time like Rohn) but building your offense around these moves is a bad idea. There are plenty of kids that can hit a cement mixer but not a high crotch. It rarely works out well long term for their career.

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we called is a cement mixer in my high school in north jersey. i believe it was from the lehigh influence.

 

i understand not wanting to see kids make it their go to move from feet but it has plenty of value if deployed properly. i used it when i could to counter shots, and i was never able to muscle many kids. i few i did as an upperclassmen but its a pretty low risk move. once its properly defended you can switch off to a head lock or just disengage back to neutral.

 

obviously it becomes less effective once you move up in skill and strength levels are equalized, but the same can be said about a wrist and half nelson. but also i agree if someone is going for this move when its not working and also doesnt have a decent high c or single leg attack, then yeah, thats definitely a problem.

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Not to be nitpicky or anything but what Rohn threw on Lambrecht was a "special."

 

 

I am with you on this one daler. during that period the lehigh valley terminology did not include "cement mixer."

 

cement job - head chancery or cow catcher. circle the head and arm across the back

flying cement job- opponent has a single leg you roll to your back and kick him over the top

konkrete special- underhook, chin, roll underneath. this is what rohn hit

*edit

flying special- special from your feet. billman did it to dan Wilson in the state finals. his freshman year at psu I think he hit one on conly (not sure if I have the right guy or spelling) of lock haven in the dual at lhu. maybe he just went for it and didn't get it.

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The other main problem I see is that 80 percent of the time the kids who try this and fail could have just gone behind for an easy 2. A cement job has value in the right situation. But at the kid level the majority of kids are using it to the detriment of their own development. Of course this is indicative of a bigger problem in youth wrestling, but don't want to hijack here.

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cement job - head chancery or cow catcher. circle the head and arm across the back

Cow Catcher

 

flying cement job- opponent has a single leg you roll to your back and kick him over the top

DJ/High Flyer

 

konkrete special- underhook, chin, roll underneath. this is what rohn hit

Cement Mixer/Russian Roll

*edit

 

flying special- special from your feet. billman did it to dan Wilson in the state finals. his freshman year at psu I think he hit one on conly (not sure if I have the right guy or spelling) of lock haven in the dual at lhu. maybe he just went for it and didn't get it.

Standing Cement mixer?

 

 

The bolds are my terms, for the record.

 

Is anyone interested in doing this thread for other moves?

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As far as the history goes:

 

A "chancery" is hooking the head with your arm. When the particular chancery is not specified, "front" is assumed.

 

front-head-chancery.jpg

 

side-head-chancery.jpg

 

rear-head-chancery.jpg

 

The term was common in boxing, at one time, as well as wrestling. And it's quite old:

 

[W]hen I can perform my mile in eight minutes or a little more, then I feel as if I had old Time's head in chancery.

 

Wrestling terminology of the past tended to put more emphasis on positions and holds, and less on moves. It also tended to use composite terms, even for common situations... so a "bar arm" and a "front head chancery" was a "bar arm and chancery".

 

By the 1980s, the "bar arm" part had pretty well dropped, and I never knew "chancery" to refer to any but the front chancery. "Cement mixer" and "cement job" seem to have come up in the early '90s. I first heard "cow catcher" in the early '90s, but it seems to have been a midwestern term, and may have started a bit earlier.

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Fun topic so I thought I'd chime in on this.

 

I grew up in the midwest and I usually heard this referred to as a cowcatcher by wrestlers from other high schools and future college teamates/competitors. I was never specifically taught this move growing up, but I was taught the "double-double" in jr. high which required locking your hands. I couldn't tell if the kid in the first clip had his hands locked but that looked close to what I know as a "double-double". When the you simply drive someone over without locking or use their momentum I'd call that a cowcatcher.

 

I had never heard of a cement mixer until I started reading national message boards like this one.I learned this move a few times growing up from different coaches and all used different names including Wyoming, Russian Roll, Western Roll, and Chancery Roll.

 

I appreciated Ray's history lesson on chancery. My father(coach) grew up on Long Island and he refers to all of these moves as the "chancery series". He also talks about his favorite jr. high move being called a "whip" so I'll have to see if he like Plasmodium considers a cowcather to be a whip.

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We call it "move used by strong kids in middle school that doesn't work at the next level and usually causes those strong kids to not develop technique and ultimately quit the sport. " 2nd worse move to teach kids after the head lock. (Until they know the fundamentals. )

 

Haha yep!!! Myself and the other coach at the school I teach at put our head through the wall last year when we saw people go for that or try a headlock. When I coached the middle school I wouldn't even go over those moves during our short season. lol

 

 

These are both good go for broke moves when you are down big but they should not be a persons primary go to moves.

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Tell Tony Ramos it doesn't work at the D1 level.

 

Exactly.

 

Joe Williams used to sell a poster of himself hitting a cow catcher on a guy from Iowa State (I think). I have it at home somewhere and will have to look it up.

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The front head chancer is one of the first moves I teach beginning wrestlers along with the single and double leg.

 

The kids would learn to hit it when the opponent shot with his head down and elbows out. This is frequently a problem with inexperienced wrestlers. As a result my wrestlers would learn to shoot with their heads up and elbows in on a single or double leg, or their teammate would put them on their backs.

In matches many of my kids would get easy pins with this move. Very effective when done correctly even at the D1 level.

 

The Bar Arm is also called a Near Wrist Series. I learned the Bar Arm from Duwane Miller and Mickey Martin former OU champs. I learned about 15 different ways of putting the opponent on his back once I had the Bar Arm Ride.

 

Many years ago I stumped Port Robertson, who could remember every football player from 1947=1984 by their first, middle, and last name. He was never stumped. He coached the 1960 Olympic freestyle team, and it was his par terre skills that helped the team win 3 gold medals.

 

I asked him one day who invented the Bar Arm series. He said some Egyptian 5,000 years ago. He said there is nothing new in wrestling, it is just new to the guy learning it. I asked him who taught him the Bar Arm. He was silent for several seconds then said it is so long ago I honestly don't remember. So my theory is Ed Gallagher probably was the most likely inventor in the US.

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I hear different people call it a few different things: cow catcher, double trouble, bulldog, [insert your mascot] etc.

 

Here in Illinois it's called a cowcatcher. Although some on the kids levels refer to it as the crusher and some in high school call it a bulldog. Way too many kids are ruined by falling in love with headlocks and this move to muscle other kids to their backs. They never learn proper technique or spend much time practicing other stuff in matches so as they get older and the strength evens out it doesn't work against good wrestlers.

 

A cow catcher is still effective at the higher levels when proper technique is used as opposed to just trying to muscle a guy over. The video example is horrible technique being used to pin fish. The move works best when you can drop your shoulder so that your opponent's underhooked arm is draped over your shoulder/neck area instead of clamping down on your arm. Reach across your opponents back and with his arm dangling instead of clamping its hard to stop and does not require as much muscle to finish. Ramos uses good technique here:

 

We call it a gator roll when taken the opposite way and rolling to the underhook side so that you actually expose your own back before coming out on top. This works best after your opponent fights the cow catcher and you use his momentum against him.

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Way too many kids are ruined by falling in love with headlocks and this move to muscle other kids to their backs. They never learn proper technique or spend much time practicing other stuff in matches so as they get older and the strength evens out it doesn't work against good wrestlers.

 

I had a six year old who was pinning everyone with a headlock. When he came off the mat after yet another first period pin, I took him aside and told him: 'you aren't going to be able to throw that on the really good kids. Stop relying on the headlock.' --- or words to that effect. I didn't say never do it again, I just told him to lay off for awhile.

 

Swear to god, I coached him for 10 more years and I never saw him throw another headlock. The following year when he was 7, he was Eastern National Champ. Go figure.

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Way too many kids are ruined by falling in love with headlocks and this move to muscle other kids to their backs. They never learn proper technique or spend much time practicing other stuff in matches so as they get older and the strength evens out it doesn't work against good wrestlers.

 

I had a six year old who was pinning everyone with a headlock. When he came off the mat after yet another first period pin, I took him aside and told him: 'you aren't going to be able to throw that on the really good kids. Stop relying on the headlock.' --- or words to that effect. I didn't say never do it again, I just told him to lay off for awhile.

 

Swear to god, I coached him for 10 more years and I never saw him throw another headlock. The following year when he was 7, he was Eastern National Champ. Go figure.

 

At the kids level coaches need the parents to help with that. Way too many dads are celebrating their 6-10 year olds getting those 1st period pins using "junk" moves. They argue that "it works" when you try to steer their "champ" away from what pins other 6-10 year olds and into techniques they can use and perfect as they get older to beat real wrestlers.

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Way too many kids are ruined by falling in love with headlocks and this move to muscle other kids to their backs. They never learn proper technique or spend much time practicing other stuff in matches so as they get older and the strength evens out it doesn't work against good wrestlers.

 

I had a six year old who was pinning everyone with a headlock. When he came off the mat after yet another first period pin, I took him aside and told him: 'you aren't going to be able to throw that on the really good kids. Stop relying on the headlock.' --- or words to that effect. I didn't say never do it again, I just told him to lay off for awhile.

 

Swear to god, I coached him for 10 more years and I never saw him throw another headlock. The following year when he was 7, he was Eastern National Champ. Go figure.

 

At the kids level coaches need the parents to help with that. Way too many dads are celebrating their 6-10 year olds getting those 1st period pins using "junk" moves. They argue that "it works" when you try to steer their "champ" away from what pins other 6-10 year olds and into techniques they can use and perfect as they get older to beat real wrestlers.

 

I resemble this comment. I don't see any problem with people teaching little kids moves that are going to make wrestling fun for them. My youngest relied heavily on this very move when he was really young - so much that he would run around the front from top position to hook it up. It was entertaining and a crowd would gather at his quarter of the mat to watch it. We celebrated every win. Opposing coaches who took things way too seriously would get really pissed at him for it. I remember a lot of internal chuckling at those guys.

I recall him telling me at 10 that it didn't work anymore and he went onto other things. 8 years later, he is still wrestling and loving every minute of it.

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I had a six year old who was pinning everyone with a headlock. When he came off the mat after yet another first period pin, I took him aside and told him: 'you aren't going to be able to throw that on the really good kids. Stop relying on the headlock.' --- or words to that effect. I didn't say never do it again, I just told him to lay off for awhile.

 

Swear to god, I coached him for 10 more years and I never saw him throw another headlock. The following year when he was 7, he was Eastern National Champ. Go figure.

 

At the kids level coaches need the parents to help with that. Way too many dads are celebrating their 6-10 year olds getting those 1st period pins using "junk" moves. They argue that "it works" when you try to steer their "champ" away from what pins other 6-10 year olds and into techniques they can use and perfect as they get older to beat real wrestlers.

 

I resemble this comment. I don't see any problem with people teaching little kids moves that are going to make wrestling fun for them. My youngest relied heavily on this very move when he was really young - so much that he would run around the front from top position to hook it up. It was entertaining and a crowd would gather at his quarter of the mat to watch it. We celebrated every win. Opposing coaches who took things way too seriously would get really pissed at him for it. I remember a lot of internal chuckling at those guys.

I recall him telling me at 10 that it didn't work anymore and he went onto other things. 8 years later, he is still wrestling and loving every minute of it.

 

I find that experience to be the exception rather than the rule. I'm glad it worked out for you (him).

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