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WreslingSuperior

Catch as Catch Can Wrestling

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Why wouldn't collar and elbow be useful in MMA exactly?

 

? Granted I've never seen a collar and elbow match but from what I've read the reasons for incompatibility with MMA are obvious.

 

Does collar and elbow use submissions and chokes? And do MMA fighters spend a lot of time hanging on a collar or elbow? I don't think that is a position that comes up often like free/folk positioning, throws, or submissions in the case of catch.

 

Yes, the American style of collar and elbow wrestling features ground fighting with submissions. In MMA the Muay Thai style clinch is an important position from standing. If you're unfamiliar with this position it features a double collar tie. I imagine many collar and elbow techniques would be useful from this position.

 

Many tie ups used in folkstyle, freestyle and, I imagine, catch wrestling are not useful in MMA. Fighters either operate further out and shoot from beyond their opponents reach or use very close quarters ties (over-under, muay thai, ect.) where it is difficult to strike effectively. As a corollary I've heard people say that greco roman wrestling translates better to MMA because of the importance of the clinch and the danger of kicks and knees when shooting from farther out than the rule of thumb bent arm's distance. I would think collar and elbow similar to greco roman would put one in a clinch position far more frequently than freestyle, folkstyle, or catch wrestling.

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I didn't think of the muay tai clinch so yes I suppose your right, that would help you tighten up your clinch work and control your opponent better from that position. Though I believe much of the clinch benefit is shared between the other wrestling styles, Greco being the most obvious.

 

And wouldn't catch be especially good for MMA because it attempts to get unexpected submissions, chokes, or "hooks" from any position? You can basically use moves from any grappling style in Catch and it is legal, throws from Greco, leg takedowns from freestyle, submissions from BJJ, etc.

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With catch wrestling you can work on ideal submission wrestling positions without losing your freestyle/greco techniques/training. This is a very positive aspect.

 

Is catch wrestling better or worse as cross training for amateur wrestling and MMA than sumo wrestling? Sumo wrestlers employ over 400 discrete grappling techniques.

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I mean on the face the answer to your question is pretty simple. Most US wrestlers going into MMA don't train catch because there are so few people who do it in this country. The reason there are so few people who do it is the same reason no one does collar and elbow wrestling - it evolved into a more popular form that took its place. Collar and elbow became catch, catch became folkstyle. Now essentially no one does collar and elbow and almost no one does catch.

 

Also training in catch would not completely remove the need to train BJJ for an MMA fighter. If you are going 100% catch there would be no reason to go to your back ever. Go to your back and you lose. But in an MMA fight or a BJJ match going to your back to avoid a submission or going to your back to get a submission is a viable strategy and you will need to learn to deal with opponents on their back. I'm sure even Josh Barnett has done some BJJ guard work and worked on passing.

 

Supposing you just got done your college/high school folkstyle wrestling career and are thinking of going into MMA. Chances are you can find a place to wrestle and a place to do BJJ within 50-100 miles of where you live. Try finding a catch wrestling club. There might be 20 or so clubs in the entire country. So training folkstyle wrestling and BJJ is convenient. Training straight catch is inconvenient and you still have to train BJJ because it is so prevalent in MMA and going to ones back doesn't end the fight

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Yes, I understand all wrestlers will train to get off their back whether it's catch, folkstyle, freestyle or whatever, but what if you hit your opponent with a double leg and end up in his guard? How would catch wrestling address this problem for wrestler looking to fight MMA? I don't think it does.

 

Sure the guard isn't as good in MMA as it is in BJJ because there is a great disparity in striking ability, but there are far more submission options for the bottom man than the top man. Training BJJ with teach you to avoid those submissions whereas catch wrestling will not involve catching or defending submissions with one person on his/her back. Vitor Belfort nearly beat Jon Jones using a submission from guard. Chael Sonnen got submitted by Anderson Silva in this position. Fedor lost in this position.

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Statistically in mma the top position is better than guard. In bjj you cannot slam your opponent fron the guard. Its illegal.

 

This, Passing the guard under BJJ rules is hard and can leave you vulenrable to submissions Sitting in top position raining down punches? Not so much.

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