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RetiredPoster

I would love to see Burroughs vs ...........

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Numerous wrestlers are far more technical than Burroughs but because he is the fastest/most explosive wrestler ever and one of the strongest p4p ever he simply doesn't need to be that technical. Give Dave Schultz or Saitiev that speed and strength and Burroughs gets crushed.

 

I do think he would beat Schultz, Saitiev, and Leipold.

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Numerous wrestlers are far more technical than Burroughs but because he is the fastest/most explosive wrestler ever and one of the strongest p4p ever he simply doesn't need to be that technical. Give Dave Schultz or Saitiev that speed and strength and Burroughs gets crushed.

 

I do think he would beat Schultz, Saitiev, and Leipold.

 

Are you saying that Burroughs isn't very technical on his feet? What specifically makes Schultz more technical than Burroughs in the neutral position?

 

I think Burroughs skills are overlooked because of his amazing physical attributes. There have been 10s of wrestlers over the years who's athleticism was comparable to Burroughs, and they weren't able to accomplish what Burroughs did. There is no way that you can tell me that Burroughs isn't very skilled on his feet. The impeccable timing that accompanies Burroughs' shots and reshots didn't appear out of thin air.

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Schultz was one of the most, if not the most, technically skilled wrestler the US has seen. Won with a tremendous amount of varied techniques, that was his strong point along with physical strength. Burroughs is incredible but he's not winning on superior technique. I'd take Burroughs over most, I might draw the line at a B Saitiev in his prime. Slay and Joe Williams were both able to take down Saitiev with power doubles though so you never know. If JB wins two more worlds and another Olympics in this fashion he likely has to be considered best ever.

 

So Burroughs isn't one of the most skilled wrestlers on his feet p4p in the world? He's just an average technician?

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Numerous wrestlers are far more technical than Burroughs but because he is the fastest/most explosive wrestler ever and one of the strongest p4p ever he simply doesn't need to be that technical. Give Dave Schultz or Saitiev that speed and strength and Burroughs gets crushed.

 

I do think he would beat Schultz, Saitiev, and Leipold.

 

Are you saying that Burroughs isn't very technical on his feet? What specifically makes Schultz more technical than Burroughs in the neutral position?

 

I think Burroughs skills are overlooked because of his amazing physical attributes. There have been 10s of wrestlers over the years who's athleticism was comparable to Burroughs, and they weren't able to accomplish what Burroughs did. There is no way that you can tell me that Burroughs isn't very skilled on his feet. The impeccable timing that accompanies Burroughs' shots and reshots didn't appear out of thin air.

 

I am not saying Burroughs is not very technical, I'm saying he is not a technician like Schultz or Saitiev was. He is getting more and more technical but he is nowhere near that level yet. I also didn't know that wrestling and being technical was just on the feet? He's a very young guy and I'm not trying to trash him, I'm just saying his physical abilities are the main reason he is so successful. I see no other wrestler at his weight currently with his explosiveness or strength (some are close here though).

 

If you gave Dave Schultz his athleticism, then who would you choose to win?

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I am not saying Burroughs is not very technical...[sNIP] I'm just saying his physical abilities are the main reason he is so successful. I see no other wrestler at his weight currently with his explosiveness or strength (some are close here though).

 

 

I agree. Burroughs' timing, finishes, mental toughness and dedication have little effect on his international success. He mostly muscles weaker opponents, like Goudarzi, around and hasn't beaten a sound technician yet.

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Have you seen Dave Schultz wrestle? Here's a video of Dave winning the gold in the 1984 Olympics. Please tell me what part of this is so blisteringly technical that its beyond the reach of undefeated, three-time world-level champ Burroughs. (Remember, Burroughs won his last world title on a broken ankle looking visibly thinner and less mobile.)

 

 

I'm not trying to be inflammatory. Schultz is a legend. But I think Burroughs would tech Schultz.

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I think Burroughs beats Schultz bad as well. I'm not saying Burroughs doesn't have great timing or that he doesn't work his butt off or that he doesn't finish . I just haven't seen the varied attacks, the scrambling, or the turns on top. He's very young and has been wrestling freestyle full time for 2.5 years, I just don't think quite yet he is an all time great technician. Damn it wasn't meant to insult or discredit him, just that I think he has some a little ways to go before I feel this way. I do think at his weight class he is top 3 technically in the world.

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John Smith wasn't really turning guys until the year of his 3rd world championship. That's around the time where he really developed his cross ankle series. Rumor has it he'd spent some time with Vladimir Toguzov to learn the intricacies of the series. Toguzov had the best cross ankle series in the world at the time and still one of the best ever.

 

Burroughs started turning guys this year with his cross ankle series, hitting the turn straight of his takedown. This, in my opinion, is what is currently separating him from the rest of the pack. And he is only going to get better in par terre.

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John Smith wasn't really turning guys until the year of his 3rd world championship. That's around the time where he really developed his cross ankle series. Rumor has it he'd spent some time with Vladimir Toguzov to learn the intricacies of the series. Toguzov had the best cross ankle series in the works at the time and still one of the best ever.

 

Burroughs started turning guys this year with his cross ankle series, hitting the turn straight of his takedown. This, in my opinion, is what is currently separating him from the rest of the pack. And he is only going to get better in par terre.

 

quick,

smith was turning guys early on. he was only getting turns once in a while, just 1 or 2 a match. sometimes more. he had a variety of scores in par terre. let's not forget how well he turned guys with his 1 on 1 wrist series and some guts as well.

 

in comparison to when he was getting techs, 15 points for a tech back then, it seems like he didn't score backs.

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Yeah I didn't say he wasn't turning guys, I said he wasn't really turning guys meaning that in his early days he wasn't the beast on top he later became. Sure he was turning guys but wasn't turning the best guys. After 1989 he was. I have close to 100 of his matches on film and you can see his par terre development and exactly when it began to spike. Early in his career he would get a few turns on guys with his wrist series and gutwrench but once he developed his cross ankle series he was beating world medalists by 10-15 points.

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