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The_Education

Pre-season top 5 wrestlers pound-for-pound

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1. Dake

2. Ruth

3. Taylor

4. McDonough

5. Stieber

 

Anyone putting Stieber or Oliver over McD just didn't watch last year. 2 losses by Oliver and no NCAA title, 2 losses for Stieber. I feel like some people like to downgrade Iowa wrestlers just to get a reaction. McDonough had a 1 loss NCAA championship season with his only loss being in OT. In his career, he has fewer losses than both guys while wrestling more matches. There's no way to argue either guy had a better 2011-2012 season, nor obviously a better career (although Stieber obviously has a shot at that.)

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McDonough's thing is, while a great wrestler and 3 time finalist, he was manhandled by Robles a year and a half ago. Meanwhile, Stieber upends Oliver and beats Russia's #4 in a tilt-a-whirl match.

 

 

Robles is a bit of a special case, no? TOugh guy to wrestle with having never gotten the opportunity to do so. Either way, McDonough gave up 0 points after the first period, so I don't know if manhandled is fair. McD lost 7-1. And if we're counting losses, Stieber's not going to win that competition, either. Stieber is coming off technically his Freshman season, he hasn't done anything to vault over McDonough. His season last year was very good, but it wasn't spectacular. McD is a 3 time finalist, 2 time champ.

 

Stieber beating the 4th best Russian on his home soil is nice, but how does it matter here? It's not like he's a multiple world medalist.

 

I mean, if you want to argue that you like Stieber's style better, that's fine, but McDonough has clearly been the superior wrestler so far. And in fairness to Stieber, we have much more opportunity for McDonough to show it.

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McDonough's thing is, while a great wrestler and 3 time finalist, he was manhandled by Robles a year and a half ago. Meanwhile, Stieber upends Oliver and beats Russia's #4 in a tilt-a-whirl match.

 

 

Robles is a bit of a special case, no? TOugh guy to wrestle with having never gotten the opportunity to do so. Either way, McDonough gave up 0 points after the first period, so I don't know if manhandled is fair. McD lost 7-1. And if we're counting losses, Stieber's not going to win that competition, either. Stieber is coming off technically his Freshman season, he hasn't done anything to vault over McDonough. His season last year was very good, but it wasn't spectacular. McD is a 3 time finalist, 2 time champ.

 

Stieber beating the 4th best Russian on his home soil is nice, but how does it matter here? It's not like he's a multiple world medalist.

 

I mean, if you want to argue that you like Stieber's style better, that's fine, but McDonough has clearly been the superior wrestler so far. And in fairness to Stieber, we have much more opportunity for McDonough to show it.

 

 

Robles was a very special case, yes. Jordan Burroughs in a 125 lb frame maybe had a shot at Robles that year.

 

As I've said before, if you had McDonough at #1, I wouldn't argue too hard.

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Here's who I have:

 

1) Dake/Howe

3) Taylor

4) Ruth

5) Stieber/Oliver

 

If Howe wasn't injured, I'd be pulling for a Howe/Ruth all-star match.

 

I'd put McDonough at 7. Most years, he'd be higher up the ladder than that. There's a lot of talent out there!

 

Not to get TOO technical, but didn't you actually list six instead of five? 8-)

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As always, I really wonder what these lists would look like if the official just made the right call at the end of the 133 final in St. Louis.

 

 

He did. Olivers head was buried in the crotch, you're not going to get that call. Oliver lost that match in the way that he usually loses a match: his activity level inexplicably drops off. Happened against Ramos, happened against Stieber, happened a few times as a frosh.

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As always, I really wonder what these lists would look like if the official just made the right call at the end of the 133 final in St. Louis.

 

 

He did. Olivers head was buried in the crotch, you're not going to get that call. Oliver lost that match in the way that he usually loses a match: his activity level inexplicably drops off. Happened against Ramos, happened against Stieber, happened a few times as a frosh.

 

Jordan Oliver (Gator wrestling club) over Matt McDonough (Hawkeye Wrestling Club) (Pin 6-0,0:12)

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As always, I really wonder what these lists would look like if the official just made the right call at the end of the 133 final in St. Louis.

 

 

He did. Olivers head was buried in the crotch, you're not going to get that call. Oliver lost that match in the way that he usually loses a match: his activity level inexplicably drops off. Happened against Ramos, happened against Stieber, happened a few times as a frosh.

 

Jordan Oliver (Gator wrestling club) over Matt McDonough (Hawkeye Wrestling Club) (Pin 6-0,0:12)

Hard to imagine that McDonough got pinned :12 into the period.

 

My top ten:

 

1. Dake

1. Taylor (to be determined)

3. Ruth

4. Howe

5. Oliver

5. Stieber

7. McDonough

8. Caldwell

9. Kilgore

10. Wright

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As always, I really wonder what these lists would look like if the official just made the right call at the end of the 133 final in St. Louis.

 

 

He did. Olivers head was buried in the crotch, you're not going to get that call. Oliver lost that match in the way that he usually loses a match: his activity level inexplicably drops off. Happened against Ramos, happened against Stieber, happened a few times as a frosh.

 

Jordan Oliver (Gator wrestling club) over Matt McDonough (Hawkeye Wrestling Club) (Pin 6-0,0:12)

 

 

Cool story. That was in 2008. Should I post Eric Grajales multiple wins from the same period over Jordan Oliver as proof of Grajales current superiority over JO?

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Jordan Oliver (Gator wrestling club) over Matt McDonough (Hawkeye Wrestling Club) (Pin 6-0,0:12)

 

 

Cool story. That was in 2008. Should I post Eric Grajales multiple wins from the same period over Jordan Oliver as proof of Grajales current superiority over JO?

 

2009

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Fairly or not, I think McDonough gets put lower on some lists because he's perceived as being dominant because of his weight class.

 

Then again, if not for Robles--and the difficulties that match-up presents--he'd be going for #4 this year.

 

Are you saying because the weight is week or because he's perceived as big for his weight? Because I don't think that latter argument holds water.

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As always these depend on the criteria involved. Accolades, titles, head to head, freestyle results. I'll exclude freestyle and titles and list who I think the actual best wrestlers are.

 

1. Ed Ruth

2. Taylor

3. Dake (TBD)

4. Oliver

5. Steiber

 

Yes, Olliver is better than Steiber.

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Fairly or not, I think McDonough gets put lower on some lists because he's perceived as being dominant because of his weight class.

 

Then again, if not for Robles--and the difficulties that match-up presents--he'd be going for #4 this year.

 

Are you saying because the weight is week or because he's perceived as big for his weight? Because I don't think that latter argument holds water.

 

Big for the weight class--not saying it's right...but I am saying that I think people hold it against him.

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Fairly or not, I think McDonough gets put lower on some lists because he's perceived as being dominant because of his weight class.

 

Then again, if not for Robles--and the difficulties that match-up presents--he'd be going for #4 this year.

 

Are you saying because the weight is week or because he's perceived as big for his weight? Because I don't think that latter argument holds water.

 

Big for the weight class--not saying it's right...but I am saying that I think people hold it against him.[/quote

 

 

That doesn't make any sense to me, sorry. Everyone here is talking about JOrdan Oliver moving up TWO weight classes this offseason, yet nobody has any qualms about including him despite losing more matches than McDonough and not winning an NCAA title. Oliver's best hope is to match McDonough's accomplishments, and McDonough has to lose and JO has to win another title. For me, I'm not buying it, although I understand that Oliver is a more nationally popular wrestler with a style that is more appealing to the non-Iowa fans.

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