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The Historical significance of Stieber's win.

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I don't think you should make such a big deal about the Hodge implications. You never know how they are going to vote, they have voted in a DIII wrestler and an NAIA wrestler.

 

Took the words out of my mouth. The Hodge, while a good idea, has been executed extremely poorly at times. With that said, this is nothing better than a tiebreaker against Ruth or Taylor..I would still say it is one of theirs to lose. (Though Steiber could certainly be deserving regardless of this event.)

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I don't think you should make such a big deal about the Hodge implications. You never know how they are going to vote, they have voted in a DIII wrestler and an NAIA wrestler.

 

Took the words out of my mouth. The Hodge, while a good idea, has been executed extremely poorly at times. With that said, this is nothing better than a tiebreaker against Ruth or Taylor..I would still say it is one of theirs to lose. (Though Steiber could certainly be deserving regardless of this event.)

 

How is it Taylor's or Ruth's to lose? This win is bigger than any win that either Taylor or Ruth has had during their ncaa careers. If the numbers are close between the 3, I don't see how you can justify going against Stieber.

 

Even if it isn't a post season win, it's still going up a weight class against a defending undefeated champion. How can this win be relegated to tie braker status? Do weight disadvantages mean nothing anymore?

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First of all, no match that happens in November can be in the top 1000 matches. Seriously, it was an OT win in an exhibition match the first day of the season. You are making it sound like he teched him in the NCAA finals. This is not one of the top 1000 matches in NCAA history'. If Dake lost to Taylor in the NCAA finals, the win at the All Star would be completely meaningless, ala Metcalf destroying Caldwell.

 

FWIW, it isn't even the best win of Steiber's own career by a long shot.

 

Outside of the Oliver win, what other win from Stieber do you put over this one? You write as if this list is extensive.

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I think if its just college results, then this is probably Steiber's 2nd best win. If we are talking freestyle as well, then he has teched multiple NCAA champs, beaten other NCAA champs, beaten Sat, beaten some super tough guys overseas as well. Zadick? I mean the list goes on for this guy when you include FS.

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Schalles wrestled up two weight classes in the conference tournament when he pinned Floyd Hitchcock at 177. Wade wasn't eligible to wrestle at the NCAA tournament. To me that is the greatest win by a wrestler moving up in weight classes.

 

Logan and Kendric are two of my favorites, i've enjoyed the times when i got to visit with them individually. The season is just beginning, when it gets to December then I start paying serious attention to induvidual results.

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The trick at Millersville that the upperclassmen would play on freshmen was to approach us--- tell us to go to ask Shorty and ask him about Schalles. That would end up as a 30 minute beat down like no other. Not a nice trick for us rookies. It was not pleasant as he would often take two three freshmen at once and whoop us.

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Yes, this is the same as those wins...at best. You could argue that it isn't even as good as those since Maple isn't even wrestling the weight he won at. If Maple decided to wrestle 174 this year would beating him still be impressive? For all we know Steiber is the reason Maple is at 149 to begin with. And more to the point this isn't in the same galaxy as Dake beating Taylor. Maple was borderline top 10 in the country p4p last year. Taylor was no worse than 2nd p4p two years ago and he stayed in the weight where he was dominant.

 

Steiber is a complete animal. But this win is "just" a guy winning an OT match against an NCAA champ, and in fact someone that won oneof the least impressive weights Incan remember. Beating an NCAA champ is always special, but this isn't "more" special.

 

Speaking of galaxies, this post may make sense in whatever alternative universe you live in, but to the rest of us here on planet earth, it doesn't. Logan Stieber has wrestled 132 all summer and clearly plans to continue to do so. He could make 133 again if needed but has no reason to do so, and the team is better off without him. Maple is visibly bigger and it would seem an overwhelming favorite at 149. The consensus as I recall was that Maple was going 149 last year if Oliver went 141. Even his sophomore year, he was considered a bona fide NCAA Title contender (ranked #1 for much of the year, though granted Kellen Russell was the best guy in the weight) and his NCAA losses were in OT to Montell Marion (who he also beat) and Boris Novachkov, two pretty highly credentialed guys. He's 62-3 over two years and two of the guys he lost to he's also beaten.

 

Think back to when the outstanding Jesse Jantzen moved up to face Alex Tirapelle. Got hammered. Or how about with Jeff Prescott moved up to face Terry Brands? Got teched. Not saying it's a historic win as the original poster did (sarcasm?) but it's far from just another "W" over an NCAA Champ.

 

It's not just another W but its also not historic. What Dake did was historic, what Schalles did was historic, what Mark Schultz did was historic. It is nothing compared to what those 3 men did, plus its just an exhibition in November to put on a show for the fans. I doubt either are in the best of shape and will likely improve throughout the season. I would love to see a rematch in March...

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Why do people say that Steiber weighed in at 143 while Maple won his title a 141? That is totally irrelevant in my opinion. Maple is wrestling 149 not 141 and he has adjusted to that weight according. Steiber is still the weight class below him just like last year and weighed in at the weight class below.

 

"EVERYONE" in the world did not think Steiber would win. Maple was an top 4-5 p4p (and only that low because last year was insane) undefeated NCAA champ at the weight above Steiber, plenty of people predicted Maple to win with his match.

 

This isn't the NCAA finals but it is not insignificant either.

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Well. There will be no rematch, and it is fair to assume both wrestlers were on even footing, as they are both at the same point in the season. You can surmise Maple's conditioning will improve, but you have to admit Steiber has just as much capacity for improvement as well. In this moment captured in time, Steiber was the better wrestler, compounded by the factor of having to weigh in at a much lighter weight. Nothing can change or alter this win. And it is a very nice win to add to his resume.

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Mark Schultz moving up to 177 to take on 2 time champ Ed Banach to stop him from winning #3, thereby halting his opportunity to become the 1st 4 timer (Banach won the next year at 190).

That was an amazing season, but Mark Schultz was just a hero. It's good now, but there were more good big men in that decade or so than I've ever seen before or after. Not quite as good would be the Nate Carr beating Kenny Monday in two NCAA finals by over time I believe, when Kenny had defeated him in two straight big 8 finals.

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Lets all settle down. Maple won his title at 141, so Steiber actually weighed in heavier than the weight Maple won at. quote]

 

Your logic is so bizarre. Dake won at 141 his freshman year, so Stieber actually weighed in heavier than the weight Dake won at his freshman year. And???? So what your saying is, we have no idea whether or not Maple is likely to be a good wrestler at 149.

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Lets all settle down. Maple won his title at 141, so Steiber actually weighed in heavier than the weight Maple won at. quote]

 

Your logic is so bizarre. Dake won at 141 his freshman year, so Stieber actually weighed in heavier than the weight Dake won at his freshman year. And???? So what your saying is, we have no idea whether or not Maple is likely to be a good wrestler at 149.

 

You might not know this, but there aren't a lot of Kyle Dakes around. Not everyone has the same level of success when they move up. Maple is a great wrestler, he is not David Taylor by a long shot.

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Your analogies make no sense. Jantzen wasn't an NCAA champ when he wrestled Tirapelle. In fact Tirapelle had placed higher than Jantzen at the NCAAs the year prior. The Brands analogy is equally silly, everyone knows that Brands was the better wrestler. Again nice win for Steiber but not remotely a legendary one. A 141 pounder wins in OT against the defending 141 champ.

YOUR analogies make no sense. You only use the facts that help your position and ignore the rest. Yes, Tirapelle placed 2nd to Jantzen's 3rd the year before (beat Mike Zadick crushing Percival on his way to 3rd, btw), but in that particular season, Jantzen was the NCAA Champ and Tirapelle placed 7th (and didn't place the year afterward when he was a senior). So whys is it more important who placed higher the year before, as opposed to that year? Are you seriously saying that Tirapelle was a better wrestler than Jesse Jantzen. JJ was untouchable as a senior at 149, including thumping Espo. Tirapelle placed 7th that year and then DNP the following year.

 

As for Prescott and Brands, I great you that Brands is the better wrestler, but Prescott was incredibly dominant at 118, destroying everyone, including a 14 point win over Zaputil in the NCAA Finals as I recall. So, I think most would say that there was not that big of difference between these two that year. Brands placed 2nd the year before I believe (or maybe it was that year, can't recall if he teched Prescott his junior or senior year). Which seemed to be very important regarding Tirapelle and Jantzen, but now we just say that "everyone knew Brands was better".

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Tirapelle was a career 157 pounder and Jantzen was a career 149 pounder. Maple won his title at 141, Steiber is now wrestling 141. People are making a big deal about the season Maple had last year, but it happened at the weight Steiber is wrestling at. Tirapelle was not a 149 pounder the year before he and Jantzen wrestled. He was the NCAA runner-up at 157.

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