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TBar1977

Penn State in need of future 165, Who will step up?

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Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. ISU having to release Taylor doesn't mean that Taylor was actually a part of that school. Taylor would have followed Cael no matter what and I think ISU knew that. Though It was a stand up move on ISU's part. Shows a lot class given how big of a fish Taylor was not to cost him a year of eligibility because they felt slighted by Cael.

 

Both DT and CM made commitments to attend and wrestle for a university and both changed their minds (for whatever reason) before actually enrolling or wrestling for that institution. Neither are transfers because you can only transfer away from a school you are actually a member of.

 

I don't see it that way at all. In business, if I execute a binding exclusive contract to provide a service to another company and then change my mind, I'm still under contract, no matter what I say. Nobody will care whether or not I actually started to deliver said service yet or not. A contract is a contract.

 

Chance never signed a contract.

 

Call it what you want, but there's a world of difference.

 

 

Then Chance made a verbal contract with Cael and PSU. There is more than one type of contract.

 

The important point is that by definition you cannot transfer away from a University you were not enrolled in or a part of. You would have a point if Taylor had even enrolled in classes but ended up at PSU before actually attending. But he didn't so I'm legitimately surprised this is even a debate to people. Taylor is not a transfer and the only people I can see making that argument is someone looking to equate the Brands "double team" stuff with Cael & PSU.

 

If Taylor is an ISU transfer then we might as well say Cael kicked Haines out of school when he broke their commitment.

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MSU, sure, Penn State is going to lose a ton with Taylor and Ruth, and this will show next year. No doubt about it. But you also talked about what Penn State will be doing after next year. That part about top 5 teams that are competitive ...etc., but not as good as now.

 

I'm just pointinjg out that if something can be done once, it can be done again. Other teams from other years have matched the point totals at NCAA's of these current Penn State teams, so this is not a historic one of a kind run we are on. It is most definitely repeatable, and if anyone can repeat it it is Cael Sanderson.

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Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me. ISU having to release Taylor doesn't mean that Taylor was actually a part of that school. Taylor would have followed Cael no matter what and I think ISU knew that. Though It was a stand up move on ISU's part. Shows a lot class given how big of a fish Taylor was not to cost him a year of eligibility because they felt slighted by Cael.

 

Both DT and CM made commitments to attend and wrestle for a university and both changed their minds (for whatever reason) before actually enrolling or wrestling for that institution. Neither are transfers because you can only transfer away from a school you are actually a member of.

 

I don't see it that way at all. In business, if I execute a binding exclusive contract to provide a service to another company and then change my mind, I'm still under contract, no matter what I say. Nobody will care whether or not I actually started to deliver said service yet or not. A contract is a contract.

 

Chance never signed a contract.

 

Call it what you want, but there's a world of difference.

 

 

Then Chance made a verbal contract with Cael and PSU. There is more than one type of contract.

 

The important point is that by definition you cannot transfer away from a University you were not enrolled in or a part of. You would have a point if Taylor had even enrolled in classes but ended up at PSU before actually attending. But he didn't so I'm legitimately surprised this is even a debate to people. Taylor is not a transfer and the only people I can see making that argument is someone looking to equate the Brands "double team" stuff with Cael & PSU.

 

If Taylor is an ISU transfer then we might as well say Cael kicked Haines out of school when he broke their commitment.

 

There is one simple legal word that debunks your argument. BINDING. A verbal commitment legally means ZERO. It is in NO WAY considered a contract by the NCAA or any DI University. Why do you think coaches cannot even talk about Commitments until the SIGNING period? Now a NLI is EXACTLY a CONTRACT. You sign a DOCUMENT stating what your relationship with the University will be. The University then holds COMPLETE power over your eligibility for 1 full year if you decide to leave or fail to honor your side. Until they sign on the dotted line nothing is BINDING.

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Look, Husky, it's one thing to debate a point, but another to start assigning ulterior motives for no reason. Look at the guys who disagree with you: lu_alum, MSU158, me, maybe I"m forgetting some others. Do any of us look like Iowa fans to you? Have any of us ever posted anything that makes you think we are Brands fanboys or have this intense hatred of Cael?

 

We're just calling it like it is. Once you sign on the dotted line, you're under contract. If you don't, you're not.

 

You can call it whatever you want, and you can argue the semantics of whether Taylor showed up to class or not, but the most relevant point is that ISU had to release him because he had previously committed to a binding contract. Call it mini-transfer if you want. The point still stands. Had ISU not been kind, as has been the case with some other schools (MSU, VT, etc.), Taylor would've sat out or been a Cyclone for a year. Cael recruited Taylor, put him under contract, and when he bolted thereafter to PSU, Taylor followed him only because he was released by ISU. Facts.

 

Marsteller can go wherever the hell he wants until he signs on the dotted line.

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"There is one simple legal word that debunks your argument. BINDING. A verbal commitment legally means ZERO. It is in NO WAY considered a contract by the NCAA or any DI University. Why do you think coaches cannot even talk about Commitments until the SIGNING period? Now a NLI is EXACTLY a CONTRACT. You sign a DOCUMENT stating what your relationship with the University will be. The University then holds COMPLETE power over your eligibility for 1 full year if you decide to leave or fail to honor your side. Until they sign on the dotted line nothing is BINDING."

 

The problem with the whole "verbal" thing is the fact that the wrestler is in charge. He reports it to the media, he is the one to get interviewed, he is the one who can leak details. The coach can't do any of that. The coach can't reply to the comments (true or false/good or bad) made by the wrestler. An 0-20 JV wrestler who is a convicted drug dealer can make a verbal and the coach can't comment on it.

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vacyclone wrote:RE: Taylor and his NLI - if ISU had not released him he would have to sit out a year, but he sat out that first year anyway as a redshirt as Cyler took the 157 spot. It wasn't until a year later that Bubba flattened him.

 

And much like Xander, yes I am still a bit bitter, but I come by it honestly. :D

 

 

But if not released he would have lost a year of competition (one of the four) not just be able to redshirt.

That would have made it so he couldn't win his 4 NCAA Titles. Remember that after his first season as a starter? 4timer for sure.

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Guys I really don't think this is controversial. Signing an NLI does not equal enrolling in an institution. I never claimed that Taylor did not sign a NLI for ISU but that is completely irrelevant to the distinction of being a transfer. The NLI is contractually stating (signing if that's what guys in this thread like better) that you INTEND to enroll. Not the same thing at all. And it isn't only about whether or not he showed up to class at ISU. It was the fact that he was never a student at ISU in the first place!!!!! NLI or not.

 

Geez.

 

I guess we have fundamental disagreements about what it means to be a transfer and that isn't going to change.

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MSU158

 

2014-15 tOSU lineup

125 Tomasello > than

133 Dijulius = > than

141 Stieber = > than

149 Stieber > than

157 Demas = or > than

165 Jordan > than

174 Martin = or > than

184 Courts = or > than

197 Could be a MAJOR hole

285 Tavanello = or > than

 

Kyle Snyder is supposed to be their 197 next year, he should be ready to step right in and be a threat.

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MSU158

 

2014-15 tOSU lineup

125 Tomasello > than

133 Dijulius = > than

141 Stieber = > than

149 Stieber > than

157 Demas = or > than

165 Jordan > than

174 Martin = or > than

184 Courts = or > than

197 Could be a MAJOR hole

285 Tavanello = or > than

 

Kyle Snyder is supposed to be their 197 next year, he should be ready to step right in and be a threat.

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MSU158

 

2014-15 tOSU lineup

125 Tomasello > than

133 Dijulius = > than

141 Stieber = > than

149 Stieber > than

157 Demas = or > than

165 Jordan > than

174 Martin = or > than

184 Courts = or > than

197 Could be a MAJOR hole

285 Tavanello = or > than

 

Kyle Snyder is supposed to be their 197 next year, he should be ready to step right in and be a threat.

 

Due to the latest Chance Marstellar saga I didn't want to add Snyder until he has signed. Even then I don't like to speculate on true freshman starting until something concrete is issued by someone "in the know". Either way tOSU looks to be VERY formidable a year from now.

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