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RetiredPoster

How do we so easily skip over John Smith...

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I think the Smith/Baum argument among Americans is now for 2nd place. I'd have to have JB as #1:

 

1) Undefeated- those guys had losses during their runs, even during tourneys where they won the Gold

2) 30 percent fewer weight classes

3) about 600 percent more Soviets in your bracket

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I don't think you can put JB at #1 just yet... but he isn't too far off even with less titles given the reasons you've outlines JJ. If Burroughs wins one more worlds and is STILL undefeated I'd have to put him at #1.

 

6 World/Olympic titles with John Smith batting 1000 every time out is extremely impressive and shows longevity. Baum competing at a top 3 Olympic level for something like a decade could have an argument as well.

 

Personal opinion ATM it is John Smith #1 Jordan #2 Baum #3 Kemp #4.

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I think the Smith/Baum argument among Americans is now for 2nd place. I'd have to have JB as #1:

 

1) Undefeated- those guys had losses during their runs, even during tourneys where they won the Gold

2) 30 percent fewer weight classes

3) about 600 percent more Soviets in your bracket

 

QFE

 

Personal opinion ATM it is John Smith #1 Jordan #2 Baum #3 Kemp #4.

 

What about Rulon? He dethroned a legend.

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I won't nibble on the troll attempt. Just remember that John Smith did win a Most Technically Correct award during one of his World titles. He belongs in any conversation of best ever which is such a subjective topic anyway.

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John Smith is most definitely regarded as one of the best wrestlers ever. Internationally he has HUGE name recognition. Sergei Beloglazov, who is himself in the discussion for one of the best ever, makes frequent reference to Smith when talking about great wrestling technicians. Burroughs undefeated streak and 3 titles is awesome, but 3 titles is still a long way off from 6. If Burroughs wins a few more titles while staying undefeated, then I think we could put him at #1. Also don't forget that despite having a few losses on his record, John Smith destroyed guys by huge margins of victory even at Worlds. He would frequently win by scores of 17-2, although that was partly facilitated by the rules at the time and his excellent par terre skills.

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Burroughs himself considers Smith at another level. While Burroughs is a humble young man, he is also realistic. In "best ever" discussions, hardware matters, a lot, and Smith is the clear #1 for at least one if not two more years in my book.

 

All the points about Burroughs having a harder situation today than Smith throughout his career are true (less weights, more Soviets, etc.). I've made all those points myself. But six world titles and two Olympic titles is just too hard to overcome by any standard.

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I always find it funny how people conveniently ignore the fact Smith lost in one of his olympic titles to a Cuban and was only pulled through to the gold medal match because of some funky rule.

 

He's a 6x world/olympic champ only on paper, 5x in reality, which is still awesome and one of the greats.

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I always find it funny how people conveniently ignore the fact Smith lost in one of his olympic titles to a Cuban and was only pulled through to the gold medal match because of some funky rule.

 

He's a 6x world/olympic champ only on paper, 5x in reality, which is still awesome and one of the greats.

 

What is this? DF vs Bizarro DF?

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John Smith is most definitely regarded as one of the best wrestlers ever. Internationally he has HUGE name recognition. Sergei Beloglazov, who is himself in the discussion for one of the best ever, makes frequent reference to Smith when talking about great wrestling technicians. Burroughs undefeated streak and 3 titles is awesome, but 3 titles is still a long way off from 6. If Burroughs wins a few more titles while staying undefeated, then I think we could put him at #1. Also don't forget that despite having a few losses on his record, John Smith destroyed guys by huge margins of victory even at Worlds. He would frequently win by scores of 17-2, although that was partly facilitated by the rules at the time and his excellent par terre skills.

 

It was also partly facilitated by Smith's nasty streak on the mat, which Burroughs doesn't seem to have. I'm not saying anything bad about Smith or Burroughs - both great, great wrestlers, both tough as nails, and both winners.

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John Smith was the greatest wrestler the US has ever put on the mat.'

 

Six straight world titles. Technical excellence award while doing so.

 

A few others appeared to have a chance but illness, injury and whatnot took them out.

 

Baumgartner is a close second for his career accomplishments over the long haul.

 

Many of the rest are and were excellent but six times in a row takes the top spot.

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