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jrob calls out cael on dual proposal

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Besides maybe logistics, what exactly is the issue with changing the team champion being determined from an individual tournament to a dual tournament? People believe that this change would "dismantle" NCAA's. I quoted dismantle because those are words that Cael has used to justify his position.

 

Why is it being dismantled? How exactly is it being dismanted? Why would a NWCA team champion, at the individual championships, be less significant than an NCAA team champion?

 

Team scores are determined by individual performances. Tom Brands has said this. The team score is still going to be shown just like at all the other individual championships. The team score is going to be exactly the same, no matter what the acronym is. Wrestlers are going to be busting their butts for AA status or for individual titles, no matter what the team score is.

 

So what's the issue?

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So you are ok with the way the NWCA handled trying to push the proposal through? Of course I know they have been discussing this for years. But something as important as this should have been clearly communicated and (not during the olympics for goodness sakes) we wouldnt even be having this discussion. I speak with the coaching staff a fair amount and te frustration i get from each of them is the same. Dan Gable is supportive of 2 champions as I am. I realize the NCAA only wants one champion. That doesn't mean we cant change the NCAAs mind. You don't just throw in the towel because the NCAA says No. They have obviously changed their mind on many things in the past. You don't "fix" the NCAA championships if it ain't broken. It's sold out every year!!!!!!! The argument that fans won't care if they eliminate the "true' team title because they only care about the individual matchups is a far out high risk assumption. I think a properly designed dual meet tournament done at the right time of the season is a point penn state and half of the other coaches would entertain with a much more positive spin. Don't you think a special summit meeting with the outcome being a vote on the NCAAs been a more professional and respectful way to handle this? :roll: I have been on many boards and when there is an important agenda item its amazing the turnout you get !!!!!!!

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How about this proposal? The NCAA individual team champion and the 2nd place team wrestle within a week or 2 for the dual meet team championship. That way all fingers are pointed to 2 teams... neither team can back out and think how much more excitement that would add to both events!

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The problem with only including the top two point finishers is that the team that finished 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. might be the best dual team in the country. Dual meet and an individual tournament scoring are two very different things. Last year I would say that Ok State, Iowa, and MN(they did beat PSU) all stood a chance of beating PSU in a dual without no real big upsets occuring. Even if those 3 teams, when healthy, each wrestled their best NCAA tournament they still wouldn't have much of a shot against PSU in an individual tournament this past year. I will say it again. PSU had a really good dual team, but they had a dominant tournament team. These two things are very different.

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I do not understand why wrestle09 simply will not read the entire article.

 

The NWCA was not the one who initiated this whole thing. Matter of fact they technically have no say. If the NCAA wants to do it, they can.

 

Read the facts then make your comments.

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I don't think everything Veritas is saying is false. I know Cael hasn't been a real "meeting" type of guy. At this point I do believe he needs to be. But cant we agree that something so important as eliminating the NCAA individual team champions as we know it should have been communicated STRONGLY as an agenda item in the NWCA meeting. What's the purpose of holding a critical meeting during the Olympic games? Nobody seems to answer questions directly from the opposing side?? That's all I ever really wanted to know. What am I missing (except my brain for running around in circles trying to get specific questions answered). I appreciate anyone who loves this sport

 

Maybe if you read the whole article Ray worte you would understand.

 

I doubt your last sentence and to be honest the only reason I am responding is that if you read the article you would know this his been discussed for numerous years.

 

Do you even know who orginally proposed this idea? Do you think it was the coaches and NWCA?

 

Ray explains in the artilce, so maybe before you go all PSU on us, you could take the time to read the whole article. I have been around this sport long enough to not let people like you or Mopar bother me. I just hope some day people can be true fans and not whatever it is that is brewing in State College.

 

 

I'm sad to hear that based on 1 or 2 posters you think that all PSU fans are not "true" fans of wrestling.

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It's still not a good idea for any single entity to put it forward without the general consent of the wrestling community. I think that's why it was floated around the coaches and has actually been brewing in there for quite a while. And probably why it will continue to brew in there.

 

It will naturally hit a point where the minority dissent will have some say and shape in the format, even though they will probably continue to oppose it. It will give way and prevail. It's going to be interesting to see how it takes hold.

 

Some guys are too gloom and doom about the change. I think the best part of the whole article was the comparison to collegiate gymnastics. While not a perfect indicator of what might happen, it is difficult to ignore the extent that has diminished from where it once was.

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I don't think everything Veritas is saying is false. I know Cael hasn't been a real "meeting" type of guy. At this point I do believe he needs to be. But cant we agree that something so important as eliminating the NCAA individual team champions as we know it should have been communicated STRONGLY as an agenda item in the NWCA meeting. What's the purpose of holding a critical meeting during the Olympic games? Nobody seems to answer questions directly from the opposing side?? That's all I ever really wanted to know. What am I missing (except my brain for running around in circles trying to get specific questions answered). I appreciate anyone who loves this sport

 

Maybe if you read the whole article Ray worte you would understand.

 

I doubt your last sentence and to be honest the only reason I am responding is that if you read the article you would know this his been discussed for numerous years.

 

Do you even know who orginally proposed this idea? Do you think it was the coaches and NWCA?

 

Ray explains in the artilce, so maybe before you go all PSU on us, you could take the time to read the whole article. I have been around this sport long enough to not let people like you or Mopar bother me. I just hope some day people can be true fans and not whatever it is that is brewing in State College.

 

 

I'm sad to hear that based on 1 or 2 posters you think that all PSU fans are not "true" fans of wrestling.

 

Not all, but to be honest it is amazing how many of them we had to boot from live blogs last year. The sad thing is it is the ones like these two that are out their making the most noise. I have plenty of friends who are PSU fans and educated wrestling fans. So I apologize to those PSU fans who are great fans.

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Does he have to speak with every coach???

 

P.S. The PSU "Train" will fill the stands not sure Minnesota does!!!

 

 

You do understand that Minnesota is the ONLY team to challenge Iowa with the largest dual attendance ALL time right? I'm pretty sure the PSU "TRAIN" has never even come close.

 

End Thread

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Viratas-Since you don't get on much anymore you won't know this Mopar Bozo but do NOT engage him. This wrestle09 guy is even newer and is just as bad. They have no idea who you are. Penn St. got good and all these annoying "know it alls" popped up. I'm sorry you don't get on much anymore, it's nice to hear from people who actually know what they're talking about.

 

 

you're welcome to come on over to awntheopenmat and hang out with V and Brinzer and all the old gang Gonzo

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brycemus-Yea, I get on there from time to time, especially when something is going on. I feel like if I let these guys run me off here I let them win. I know I'll never straighten them out and they'll continue to post nonsense like the above Minnesota post, but hey what can ya do. Thanks and I will be on over there very soon!

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The PSU "Train" will be just fine with or without you!!!

 

Does he have to speak with every coach???

 

P.S. The PSU "Train" will fill the stands not sure Minnesota does!!!

 

 

You do understand that Minnesota is the ONLY team to challenge Iowa with the largest dual attendance ALL time right? I'm pretty sure the PSU "TRAIN" has never even come close.

 

End Thread

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You were told to never reference "Mopar" but you two seem to do it quite often...Why???...You know nothing and never will...Have a nice day!!!

 

 

It gets to the point where you have to assess the content of a guy's post, and just figure that he doesn't fit within an interesting community discussion. I wonder how much longer it'll go on, or what new lows it will get to.

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The PSU "Train" will be just fine with or without you!!!

 

Does he have to speak with every coach???

 

P.S. The PSU "Train" will fill the stands not sure Minnesota does!!!

 

 

You do understand that Minnesota is the ONLY team to challenge Iowa with the largest dual attendance ALL time right? I'm pretty sure the PSU "TRAIN" has never even come close.

 

End Thread

 

 

here's the beauty of your train it's how many cars long?

PSU 4?

Minny 3?

Iowa 23?

OSU 34?

 

that's an awful short train compared to the two powerhouses of the sport. And if you were to compare fan attendance between Iowa, Minny, and PSU...your train gets even shorter.

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CTMopar is your goal to make PSU fans look like idiots. Are you really a PSU fan or just acting like one to make the school look bad. As a PSU long time fan i must say you make little to no sense in almost every post.

 

Teams that can't compete? Minnesota just beast us in a dual last season. Iowa beat us the season before in a dual. And if you know anything about wrestling lineup the dual for this year PSU vs Iowa you may find it will be a barnburner and Iowa is probably favored to win the Dual Meet.

 

As a PSU fan I would like to apologize for CTMopar most PSU fans I know have a tremendous amount of Respect for Iowa Minny Cornell Ok State and every other program.

 

He is a troll and im not sure he is actually a PSU fan and certainly doesn't share the majorites opinion

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Big10fan-Right on brother. When I was letting that guy (and the others like him) upset me, I said general things about PSU fans, and that was wrong. I have since apologized for my over generalization. I wasn't talking about good wrestling fans like you appear to be. I know all teams have good and bad fans. It's just since PSU has had success there have been a lot of bad pop up. I've said a hundred times I enjoy watching the PSU guys on the mat. Hell, Ed Ruth is my favorite wrestler going right now at the collegiate level and I'm an Iowa fan. I've actually taken flack from Iowa fans on this board for talking about how good PSU's wrestlers are. I appreciate you coming to the defense of good PSU fans. I know they're out there but a few bad apples always spoils the whole bunch. :D

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I do not understand why wrestle09 simply will not read the entire article.

 

The NWCA was not the one who initiated this whole thing. Matter of fact they technically have no say. If the NCAA wants to do it, they can.

 

Read the facts then make your comments.

Been beating my head against this wall for weeks now.

Can't wait for the season to get going to live chat.

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Another lie...You could give a rats ass if The PSU "Train" including Ed Ruth ever won another match...It's Iowa or nothing...Unless you're changing tunes now...If you are the Train is full!!!

 

Big10fan-Right on brother. When I was letting that guy (and the others like him) upset me, I said general things about PSU fans, and that was wrong. I have since apologized for my over generalization. I wasn't talking about good wrestling fans like you appear to be. I know all teams have good and bad fans. It's just since PSU has had success there have been a lot of bad pop up. I've said a hundred times I enjoy watching the PSU guys on the mat. Hell, Ed Ruth is my favorite wrestler going right now at the collegiate level and I'm an Iowa fan. I've actually taken flack from Iowa fans on this board for talking about how good PSU's wrestlers are. I appreciate you coming to the defense of good PSU fans. I know they're out there but a few bad apples always spoils the whole bunch. :D

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Besides maybe logistics, what exactly is the issue with changing the team champion being determined from an individual tournament to a dual tournament? People believe that this change would "dismantle" NCAA's. I quoted dismantle because those are words that Cael has used to justify his position.

 

Why is it being dismantled? How exactly is it being dismanted? Why would a NWCA team champion, at the individual championships, be less significant than an NCAA team champion?

 

Team scores are determined by individual performances. Tom Brands has said this. The team score is still going to be shown just like at all the other individual championships. The team score is going to be exactly the same, no matter what the acronym is. Wrestlers are going to be busting their butts for AA status or for individual titles, no matter what the team score is.

 

So what's the issue?

 

 

So.... Why still keep team scores if they don't count towards a Championship??? What's the point?

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Besides maybe logistics, what exactly is the issue with changing the team champion being determined from an individual tournament to a dual tournament? People believe that this change would "dismantle" NCAA's. I quoted dismantle because those are words that Cael has used to justify his position.

 

Why is it being dismantled? How exactly is it being dismanted? Why would a NWCA team champion, at the individual championships, be less significant than an NCAA team champion?

 

Team scores are determined by individual performances. Tom Brands has said this. The team score is still going to be shown just like at all the other individual championships. The team score is going to be exactly the same, no matter what the acronym is. Wrestlers are going to be busting their butts for AA status or for individual titles, no matter what the team score is.

 

So what's the issue?

 

 

So.... Why still keep team scores if they don't count towards a Championship??? What's the point?

 

 

There still is a championship, that's the point. People are just freaking out because the acroynym on the trophy would be different.

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Good luck trying to convince me how this'll impact the team score at the individual championships. The team score is based on how each wrestler does, correct? You can expect each and every wrestler to give it his all because everyone wants to be an NCAA individual champion/AA.

 

Put NRA in front of the team trophy. How's that going to change how Ed Ruth is going to prepare for an individual title? Is that going to really make him less inclined to wrap someone up in a cradle?

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