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NJDan

Weight-Cutting-- Is it no more?

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I know there are many exceptions but I will say this. We know a lot more about how to lose weight, how to lose weight correctly and there are more "tools" available. With proper diet and work, a wrestler can keep weight cutting to a minimum. Lose the weight, keep it down by eating correctly, and cut just at the very end for a pound or two. I would say wrestlers are still losing weight, but not "cutting" so hard, and wrong.

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I wrestled in high school in the '70s and did some things to cut weight I would never let my son do but I never heard of some of the things in the article below about what some of today's MMA fighters do. Like slathering Albolene and makeup remover on your body so that the pores open ups making it easier to sweat. Or using a credit card to "scrape sweat" from your body. Crazy...

 

http://www.nj.com/sports/index.ssf/2013 ... eport.html

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Weight cutting will never truly go away as long as you have weight classes. What we don't have as much is weight cutting as a primary ethos of wrestling. With Dake, Ruth, and JO last year, and Ruth and Stieber this year, we have role models that show us not only do you feel better and have more fun when wrestling fat and happy, but also that you wrestle better. The weight cutting that we will never get rid of is the situation that DiJulius has two years ago, where he had the options of make the tough cut to 125 or ride the pine, since you aren't beating Stieber at 133. Cody Yohn had the same problem last year with Storley, and that form of weight cutting will never go away.

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The problem with mat side weigh-ins is it doesn't mesh up with international style methods at all. It might further the development chasm that folkstyle already creates.

 

I think mat-side is definitely worth trying at scholastic schoolboy levels of wrestling.

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It still goes on but requires much more planning. I am three years removed from college wrestling but know back then cheating the hydration side of it went on all over the country in all divisions. If you couldn't cheat the hydration test then you had to cut under the weight you needed to hit and drink back up. It may not be as bad as it used to be, but extreme weight cutting (by society standards) is still alive.

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my junior year i was a 125, always a little taller than most wrestlers had a great year. i hit the weights hard that offseason was wrestling 160 in offseason tournaments and competeing very nicely, took me a while to adjust to the different styles, but i got the hang of it. my senior year i cut too much weight wrestled 135 was the worst decision i have ever made in my life. i am confident to this day i would have been ten times better and competing better if i wrestled 160, or 152. oliver chad mendes dake, pj gilliespie, eric tannebaums are prime examples... goo up feel better wrestle better, cutting wieght is a thing of the past

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Nice PR but obviously not completely true. Weight cutting is necessarily a part of college wrestling not only because of the existence of weight classes but because wrestlers must make and hold a given weight class over the course of the season to make the team. Bumping up a class after the Christmas break just is not an option on a competitive team.

 

Also, matside weigh-ins are a horrible idea that will (1) encourage last second, extreme cutting, and (2) put out an overall worse product. If you want evidence of what mat-side weigh-ins (and the weight cutting connected with them) would look like, visit the jock's room at Santa Anita.

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As long as there are weight groups you are going to have cutting. If kids/coaches think an advantage can be gained there will be cutting. As someone who cut to the extreme at times I wish I had it to do all over.

I think many of the injuries I had were due to cutting too much. One year I went undefeated all year only to have the coach ask me to cut down a weight " it will help us get so and so into the lineup for tournaments". Another year the coach kept bugging me "you have to be at weight" on such and such date. I got there only to have the coach ask me the next week to then go up a weight "it will help us get so and so into the line up".

I do think there is MUCH more information on cutting healthier today. As a coach I told kids "if you want to drop weight stop eating all the crap. Candy, chips, cookies, soda pop etc. and let's just see where you end up. I didn't want them giving up nutrition just the empty calories. When I explained that to parents I never got an argument and kids wrestled at weights that were comfortable for them.

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Nice PR but obviously not completely true. Weight cutting is necessarily a part of college wrestling not only because of the existence of weight classes but because wrestlers must make and hold a given weight class over the course of the season to make the team. Bumping up a class after the Christmas break just is not an option on a competitive team.

 

Also, matside weigh-ins are a horrible idea that will (1) encourage last second, extreme cutting, and (2) put out an overall worse product. If you want evidence of what mat-side weigh-ins (and the weight cutting connected with them) would look like, visit the jock's room at Santa Anita.

No, mat side weighins will cause you to wrestle at the weight you weighed in. I'd love to wrestle a guy who crashed and had to wrestle immediately - not after restoring some liquid and electrolyte. Performance will be the incentive as to weight class, not the supposed accuracy of some calculation that may or may not have been circumvented.

 

If cutting is actually gone there should be no opposition to mat side weighins.

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Nice PR but obviously not completely true. Weight cutting is necessarily a part of college wrestling not only because of the existence of weight classes but because wrestlers must make and hold a given weight class over the course of the season to make the team. Bumping up a class after the Christmas break just is not an option on a competitive team.

 

Also, matside weigh-ins are a horrible idea that will (1) encourage last second, extreme cutting, and (2) put out an overall worse product. If you want evidence of what mat-side weigh-ins (and the weight cutting connected with them) would look like, visit the jock's room at Santa Anita.

 

All the stuff I originally typed disappeared. Short version - Mat-side weigh-ins before every match not just the first one. You would have to maintain that extreme cut through an entire tourney, weighing in before every match. Don't see a very good performance happening if you do that.

 

Not sure about college level but would love to see it at the youth level. On the fence for high school.

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To answer the question succinctly: No, weight cutting is not a thing of the past. And I don't think that it will be anytime soon, in a sport that has weight classes.

 

But I think the important thing to take away is that we are having more wrestlers than ever performing at the highest levels without cutting much weight. You see Dake, Taylor, Oliver, Steiber, B. Askren just to name a few, who cut minimal weight and are at the top of the sport. It just shows that while weight cutting may be the best option for some people (whether it be having to fit into the lineup, being more of a physical wrestler, or whatever), you don't HAVE to cut weight to be great. These guys all have more time to focus on wrestling and technique rather than losing weight and are better off for it.

 

And like I said, that's not for everybody. I would say the number of wrestlers who do cut a decent amount of weight and are at the top of the sport outweigh those who don't cut much (which I do think is changing however). You see guys like McDonough, Escobedo, Molinaro, Jaggers, Trent Paulson who cut a lot of weight to make a weight class and have great success.

 

So no, I don't think the culture has completely changed quite yet, but it's on its way there

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I think Dake has been on both ends of this issue, he would be a good guy to ask. Early in his career he was cutting a lot of weight. In the interview immediately after winning the title at 149 he was asked, "What do you weigh right now?" Dake's reply, "170ish". Last year he obviously wasn't cutting as much as in his first couple of years.

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Weight cutting is way down. Guys have access to real weight rooms with real S&C coaches, so they actually have the option to build up.

 

As for matside weigh ins, they work. BJJ has matside weigh ins for most of its tournaments. There is a lot of action and you really cant cut weight and perform. Guys who try get the piss beaten out of them.

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Weight cutting is way down. Guys have access to real weight rooms with real S&C coaches, so they actually have the option to build up.

 

As for matside weigh ins, they work. BJJ has matside weigh ins for most of its tournaments. There is a lot of action and you really cant cut weight and perform. Guys who try get the piss beaten out of them.

 

Not to get off topic here, but I have done BJJ for a few years now and have competed many times. I have never seen matside weigh ins at any tournaments I have been to. Maybe some of the bigger ones? Also in BJJ weight cutting isn't as extreme because honestly the weight difference doesn't make a big deal. It really is about leverage and technique strength doesn't do much for you at all.

 

Back on topic. My issue with matside weigh ins is you make weight the focal point of the event. Do you really want to see an NCAA finals won because right before the finals a guy accidentally drank too much before getting on the scale? Do you want to ask kids warming up getting focused to stop and strip down to get on a scale? If you say make them weigh in dressed do you want to get into the argument of who's shoes and singlet are lighter? Do kids have to wear socks? That could be a tenth you know. I think by trying to eliminate weight cutting with matside weigh ins you push it to the for front and make it an even bigger issue than it is.

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au165:

 

"My issue with matside weigh ins is you make weight the focal point of the event."

 

No. Just the opposite. We aren't trying to expose the focus. We'd be trying to eliminate it.

 

We have had the hidden focus (way more pre wt cert rules) on cutting forever.

Questions/statements heard from the fans/stands/competitors/coaches, forever: Can/did wrestler X make weight? He made what weight? Can he survive the first round match, after which he'll get more hydrated? Will he fade late in the match/season? How fast can he recover (rehydrate effectively) from a big cut? Is he tough enough to make the necessary cut? He's not big enough, the opponents cut another wt class. He cut too far, but couldn't tell until he reached good competition. If you can avoid the big throw early he'll fade.

 

It wouldn't be a weighin problem if someone missed on mat side scales, it would be a coaching/incorrect wt class selection problem. And if someone missed for the NCAA final they should lose all points gained. He apparently hasn't been in the proper wt.

 

I talked with a number of wrestlers about eight years ago and even with the new rules they all said they'd be at least one wt up with mat side weighins. But they also said wouldn't mind as everyone else would need to also, or suffer the competitive consequences.

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Not to get off topic here, but I have done BJJ for a few years now and have competed many times. I have never seen matside weigh ins at any tournaments I have been to. Maybe some of the bigger ones? Also in BJJ weight cutting isn't as extreme because honestly the weight difference doesn't make a big deal. It really is about leverage and technique strength doesn't do much for you at all.

 

Yes, it is bigger tournaments and many local ones. The weight difference in BJJ is the same in wrestling. Leverage and strength are also part of BJJ, although the culture down plays it to allow for more participation.

 

Back on topic. My issue with matside weigh ins is you make weight the focal point of the event. Do you really want to see an NCAA finals won because right before the finals a guy accidentally drank too much before getting on the scale? Do you want to ask kids warming up getting focused to stop and strip down to get on a scale? If you say make them weigh in dressed do you want to get into the argument of who's shoes and singlet are lighter? Do kids have to wear socks? That could be a tenth you know. I think by trying to eliminate weight cutting with matside weigh ins you push it to the for front and make it an even bigger issue than it is.

 

Matside weigh ins literally take 15 seconds to do in the first round of the tournament. You dont interrupt warm up or focus because weighing in is literally the last thing you do before stepping on the mat. It takes about as much time and mental effort as putting on your red/green ankle bands. If a wrestler wants to wrestle without his socks on, he can already do that now.

 

Take a step back and compare the formalities of the two. Right now people are spending hours a week cutting, the weigh ins have a host of rules and regs, and the weigh ins take an hour to do. Force matside weigh ins and all of those go away in 15 seconds or less, and they are a hell of a lot safer.

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Not to get off topic here, but I have done BJJ for a few years now and have competed many times. I have never seen matside weigh ins at any tournaments I have been to. Maybe some of the bigger ones? Also in BJJ weight cutting isn't as extreme because honestly the weight difference doesn't make a big deal. It really is about leverage and technique strength doesn't do much for you at all.

 

Yes, it is bigger tournaments and many local ones. The weight difference in BJJ is the same in wrestling. Leverage and strength are also part of BJJ, although the culture down plays it to allow for more participation.

 

Back on topic. My issue with matside weigh ins is you make weight the focal point of the event. Do you really want to see an NCAA finals won because right before the finals a guy accidentally drank too much before getting on the scale? Do you want to ask kids warming up getting focused to stop and strip down to get on a scale? If you say make them weigh in dressed do you want to get into the argument of who's shoes and singlet are lighter? Do kids have to wear socks? That could be a tenth you know. I think by trying to eliminate weight cutting with matside weigh ins you push it to the for front and make it an even bigger issue than it is.

 

Matside weigh ins literally take 15 seconds to do in the first round of the tournament. You dont interrupt warm up or focus because weighing in is literally the last thing you do before stepping on the mat. It takes about as much time and mental effort as putting on your red/green ankle bands. If a wrestler wants to wrestle without his socks on, he can already do that now.

 

Take a step back and compare the formalities of the two. Right now people are spending hours a week cutting, the weigh ins have a host of rules and regs, and the weigh ins take an hour to do. Force matside weigh ins and all of those go away in 15 seconds or less, and they are a hell of a lot safer.

I understand the desire to have only one weigh in before the first match of the day. I advocate doing so before every match, otherwise we invite the "can I survive the first match" before rehydrating temptation.

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Not to get off topic here, but I have done BJJ for a few years now and have competed many times. I have never seen matside weigh ins at any tournaments I have been to. Maybe some of the bigger ones? Also in BJJ weight cutting isn't as extreme because honestly the weight difference doesn't make a big deal. It really is about leverage and technique strength doesn't do much for you at all.

 

Yes, it is bigger tournaments and many local ones. The weight difference in BJJ is the same in wrestling. Leverage and strength are also part of BJJ, although the culture down plays it to allow for more participation.

 

Back on topic. My issue with matside weigh ins is you make weight the focal point of the event. Do you really want to see an NCAA finals won because right before the finals a guy accidentally drank too much before getting on the scale? Do you want to ask kids warming up getting focused to stop and strip down to get on a scale? If you say make them weigh in dressed do you want to get into the argument of who's shoes and singlet are lighter? Do kids have to wear socks? That could be a tenth you know. I think by trying to eliminate weight cutting with matside weigh ins you push it to the for front and make it an even bigger issue than it is.

 

Matside weigh ins literally take 15 seconds to do in the first round of the tournament. You dont interrupt warm up or focus because weighing in is literally the last thing you do before stepping on the mat. It takes about as much time and mental effort as putting on your red/green ankle bands. If a wrestler wants to wrestle without his socks on, he can already do that now.

 

Take a step back and compare the formalities of the two. Right now people are spending hours a week cutting, the weigh ins have a host of rules and regs, and the weigh ins take an hour to do. Force matside weigh ins and all of those go away in 15 seconds or less, and they are a hell of a lot safer.

I understand the desire to have only one weigh in before the first match of the day. I advocate doing so before every match, otherwise we invite the "can I survive the first match" before rehydrating temptation.

Also, it would be an advantage for the guy with the pigtail who got to rehydrate and is now above scratch weight, as opposed to the one without the pigtail who has to weigh in at scratch weight.

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When I wrestled in high school (in Canada) some tournaments had a regular initial weigh in, and then random checks/ weight challenges during the tournament, with a 2 kg allowance. This might be a good way to force people to stop cutting weight, without putting undue stress on the guy who is exactly on-weight and worrying how much water he is drinking before his match.

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When I wrestled in high school (in Canada) some tournaments had a regular initial weigh in, and then random checks/ weight challenges during the tournament, with a 2 kg allowance. This might be a good way to force people to stop cutting weight, without putting undue stress on the guy who is exactly on-weight and worrying how much water he is drinking before his match.

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Yes, it is bigger tournaments and many local ones. The weight difference in BJJ is the same in wrestling. Leverage and strength are also part of BJJ, although the culture down plays it to allow for more participation.

 

 

Matside weigh ins literally take 15 seconds to do in the first round of the tournament. You dont interrupt warm up or focus because weighing in is literally the last thing you do before stepping on the mat. It takes about as much time and mental effort as putting on your red/green ankle bands. If a wrestler wants to wrestle without his socks on, he can already do that now.

 

Take a step back and compare the formalities of the two. Right now people are spending hours a week cutting, the weigh ins have a host of rules and regs, and the weigh ins take an hour to do. Force matside weigh ins and all of those go away in 15 seconds or less, and they are a hell of a lot safer.

 

The weight difference is not the same between the two. If I am working out of my guard it doesn't matter how big you are I can knee bar/heel hook you if you stuff me because your big a triangle or a sweep are just as easy. If I am on bottom and your 285 pounds there is a good chance I am not getting up. As I said especially with a gi the weight difference is much less of an issue. I probably agree a bit more about weight being a factor in no-gi though.

 

As for the matside weigh ins my understanding when people say matside they mean before every match not just the first one. If you only do it before the first one you really haven't accomplished anything. If I am a high seed and I know my first match will be easy I don't really care if I have to suffer one match as long as I can rehydrate after. I stand by what I said if they try doing matside weigh ins before every round it makes the weighing in more of a focus than it needs to be.

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