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Gulibon-Conaway

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Another thing, funny how people have gotten over the 47 second (or whatever) tech of Howe by Taylor this year in a consy match and view it as an outlier. Howe is pretty much considered a prohibitive favorite at 174 this year by everyone, including me. I considered it an outlier from the moment I saw the match and am unsure who would win a rematch.

 

I wonder how many of you would lay $10,000 down on Alexander to beat Gulibon in a rematch.

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Rickybobby,

 

I have nothing against Gulibon. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

 

You mention that Clark, Grey, and Kraisser are ranked top 10 now, but where were they ranked when that tournament happened? Are there any all americans in that bunch? I didn't see any, but I could be wrong. Usually, from my experience, when discussing how tough a college tournament is, the # of all americans in the bracket is criteria one. And I see at least one HS wrestler in that group. Is it really a big accomplishment for a D1 wrestler to place ahead of a HS kid?

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Rickybobby,

 

I have nothing against Gulibon. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

 

You mention that Clark, Grey, and Kraisser are ranked top 10 now, but where were they ranked when that tournament happened? Are there any all americans in that bunch? I didn't see any, but I could be wrong. Usually, from my experience, when discussing how tough a college tournament is, the # of all americans in the bracket is criteria one. And I see at least one HS wrestler in that group. Is it really a big accomplishment for a D1 wrestler to place ahead of a HS kid?

 

FYI. The high school kid won that tournament. He beat Grey and a bunch of the others in succession, including beating Gulibon. Those kids are not yet all Americans, but most of them eventually will be and some will be this year.

 

No one is saying Gulibon is about to challenge Ramos for the national title. All they are saying is that he'll be fine down the road. You seem to be missing that fact and trying awfully hard to knock the kid for no apparent reason.

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Rickybobby,

 

I have nothing against Gulibon. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

 

You mention that Clark, Grey, and Kraisser are ranked top 10 now, but where were they ranked when that tournament happened? Are there any all americans in that bunch? I didn't see any, but I could be wrong. Usually, from my experience, when discussing how tough a college tournament is, the # of all americans in the bracket is criteria one. And I see at least one HS wrestler in that group. Is it really a big accomplishment for a D1 wrestler to place ahead of a HS kid?

 

I'm sure you don't, just trying to bring some facts to bear here.

 

Kraisser was R12 last year.

Clark had wins over Delgado (National Champ), Sprenkle (5th) and Garnett (6th) last year.

Grey had wins over Mango and Beckman last year.

 

The tournament happened in the offseason. All three of the above were ranked in the top 10 to start the season - so, yes, for all intents and purposes, they were ranked there when the tournament happened.

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FYI. The high school kid won that tournament. He beat Grey and a bunch of the others in succession, including beating Gulibon. Those kids are not yet all Americans, but most of them eventually will be and some will be this year.

 

Yes, it was a great win for the high school kid, I can't deny that. I just believe that's a greater win/accomplishment for a high schooler than it is for a college wrestler. That group consisted of a bunch of non AAs, who haven't really accomplished much on the D1 level. I'm more concerned with what they were at the time of the match rather than what they might be in the future.

 

I was surprised to see a HS wrestler win that bracket, especially after I heard so much about those college kids before the tournament began. Some of those guys were just as highly touted as Whitford coming out of HS and yet they lost to him after having a year under their belts on the collegiate level. Maybe Whitford is underrated?

 

No one is saying Gulibon is about to challenge Ramos for the national title. All they are saying is that he'll be fine down the road. You seem to be missing that fact and trying awfully hard to knock the kid for no apparent reason.

 

Not this again. I'm not trying "awfully hard" to knock Gulibon. In fact, I'm not trying to knock Gulibon at all.

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That group consisted of a bunch of non AAs, who haven't really accomplished much on the D1 level. I'm more concerned with what they were at the time of the match rather than what they might be in the future.

 

The thread is titled "Gulibon-Conoway" and asks who will win the spot in the Penn State line up. That is an event or occurrance that will happen IN THE FUTURE. Where those guys were ranked last year is immaterial except insofar as it can provide guidance on the relative talent of one of the wrestlers. Where they are ranked right now matters because Jimmy isn't going to be wrestling against last year's guys, but rather who remains. This should be apparant to you already.

 

 

I was surprised to see a HS wrestler win that bracket, especially after I heard so much about those college kids before the tournament began. Some of those guys were just as highly touted as Whitford coming out of HS and yet they lost to him after having a year under their belts on the collegiate level. Maybe Whitford is underrated?

 

Would you be shocked if Aaron Pico beat Josh Dziewa? How about Kyle Snyder beating Nathan Burak? Chance Marstellar beating Moore, Iowa's 165? Not one of those results would shock anyone, but apparently you'd be "surprised" because they are h.s. kids. You are writing things in this thread but you aren't really saying anything.

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The thread is titled "Gulibon-Conoway" and asks who will win the spot in the Penn State line up. That is an event or occurrance that will happen IN THE FUTURE. Where those guys were ranked last year is immaterial except insofar as it can provide guidance on the relative talent of one of the wrestlers. Where they are ranked right now matters because Jimmy isn't going to be wrestling against last year's guys, but rather who remains. This should be apparant to you already.

 

Fair enough. But the only reason I brought up the Jr. trials was as an example of a highly anticipated tournament/match that I've seen Gulibon lose.

 

Though I have to say, I don’t view that tournament as highly as others. It was an interesting bracket, but there were no AAs. The fact that Gulibon didn’t win the tournament is more of a ‘minus’ than a ‘plus’ on his record imo. That is, given all of the hype he received coming out of HS.

 

 

 

Would you be shocked if Aaron Pico beat Josh Dziewa? How about Kyle Snyder beating Nathan Burak? Chance Marstellar beating Moore, Iowa's 165? Not one of those results would shock anyone, but apparently you'd be "surprised" because they are h.s. kids. You are writing things in this thread but you aren't really saying anything.

 

 

The relevant difference I mentioned earlier was that, "some of those guys were just as highly touted as Whitford coming out of HS...and yet they lost to him". Whitford was on par with Gulibon coming out of HS. This wasn't a top tier, all-time HS kid coming into the tournament like a Kolat. I believe Gulibon and Whitford's resume were very similar going into their matches. Gulibon's biggest win was on par with Whitford's biggest win. I would expect that a blue chip recruit with a year of D1 wrestling under his belt would beat a similar level blue chip kid who has yet to step foot on a college campus.

 

Pico over Dziewa, and Snyder over Burak, is a different situation. Pico is already on a higher tier of HS greatness than the one that Dziewa reached in HS. Pico has also won Cadet Worlds and has beaten a tough Russian. Kyle Snyder has won Jr. Worlds as a HS wrestler, beating tough grown men in the process. As far as I know, Pico and Snyder have bigger wins on their resume than Dziewa and Burak. They are two of the best HS wrestlers to come along in a while, and given what they've accomplished, I wouldn't be very surprised to see them win.

 

Marsteller is good too, but I'd be more surprised if he won. I could be wrong, but I don't believe he has as many quality wins against post HS competition as Pico and Snyder. And it's not as if he's failed to try. As you may know, at the 2012 Jr. Trials, Marsteller went 0-2 and lost to Iowa's backup Patrick Rhodes. At that same tournament, Nick Moore placed 2nd.

 

Since then, Marsteller has beaten an Olympian (although from Puerto Rico) so I wouldn't be too surprised if he were able to upset Nick Moore.

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Whitford is a good wrestler, as evidenced by the fact he won the event. He is also much bigger than Jimmy. THAT is the trend here. Jimmy is a small 133, those others guys are bigger and stronger. My contention is that when Jimmy catches up to them in size, he'll start beating them some too.

 

The thread is worn out. It no longer has much to do with Gulibon v. Conoway.

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Another thing, funny how people have gotten over the 47 second (or whatever) tech of Howe by Taylor this year in a consy match and view it as an outlier. Howe is pretty much considered a prohibitive favorite at 174 this year by everyone, including me. I considered it an outlier from the moment I saw the match and am unsure who would win a rematch.

 

I wonder how many of you would lay $10,000 down on Alexander to beat Gulibon in a rematch.

 

On the flip side, I wonder how many would lay down $10,000 on Gulibon in a rematch. I wouldn't. Would you?

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Guys this entire thread is a waste of your time. Gulibon has already won the spot. Now it's just a matter of understanding why. In most instances I would feel bad for Conaway, in this instance I don't.

 

I thought the "why" was because Gulibon wins the wrestle offs and has more "bonus potential"?

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Another thing, funny how people have gotten over the 47 second (or whatever) tech of Howe by Taylor this year in a consy match and view it as an outlier. Howe is pretty much considered a prohibitive favorite at 174 this year by everyone, including me. I considered it an outlier from the moment I saw the match and am unsure who would win a rematch.

 

I wonder how many of you would lay $10,000 down on Alexander to beat Gulibon in a rematch.

 

On the flip side, I wonder how many would lay down $10,000 on Gulibon in a rematch. I wouldn't. Would you?

 

I absolutly would that is called smart money I will bet you 10k all day at 1:1 on an event that has a greater than 50% chance of happening. I believe Gulibon would be higher than a 50% chance to win a rematch like playing a game of cards you are going to call someone on a flush draw 100 out of 100 times with a made hand when its even money to make the call. Does the flush sometimes hit and you lose absolutely but your fullish to not make the same play the next time.

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This reminds me of something Brands said one time. He said something like "you only get what you earn" or "you only deserve what you earn" or something like that. But what if you earn it and STILL don't get it? Sucks to be you I guess. I don't think even PSU fans will feel bad for Conaway, let alone fans of other schools.

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This reminds me of something Brands said one time. He said something like "you only get what you earn" or "you only deserve what you earn" or something like that. But what if you earn it and STILL don't get it? Sucks to be you I guess. I don't think even PSU fans will feel bad for Conaway, let alone fans of other schools.

 

Judging by all that has been said here, do you believe that Conway has done more to earn the spot than Gulibon? To me, it looks like better case can be made for Gulibon getting the spot. Personally, I'm not 100% sold on Gulibon getting the spot yet. If he is clearly "the guy" like some PSU fans say, why wasn't he able to beat Conway when it counted?

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This reminds me of something Brands said one time. He said something like "you only get what you earn" or "you only deserve what you earn" or something like that. But what if you earn it and STILL don't get it? Sucks to be you I guess. I don't think even PSU fans will feel bad for Conaway, let alone fans of other schools.

 

You obviously have some other motive driving comments don't you think the coaches see these two wrestle every single day for the last 2 years. Conaway and Gulibon are both amazing kids who work their ass off I wish they both could start but your constant planting the seed of scandal or favoritism is absurd. Stop acting like you come from some moral high ground. " your comments are based on nothing more than a dislike for psu" you love that a blue chip recruit had 1 close match with a kid who was expected to be the backup.

 

I assure you whoever starts for PSU is the one who earned that spot on the mat and gives PSU the best chance to repeat as National Champions for he 4th time in a row Nothing more Nothing less. "Stop with the constant I feel bad for this guy or its a shame you burnt that angle out long ago brother and your true motive has been evident in almost every post!

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Moral high ground? You lost me on that one. And you're wrong I don't dislike PSU at all. I love Ed Ruth and I think Retherford is a stud. But I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else. You're right I did LOVE the fact Conaway beat Gulibon. I think that's hilarious. As far as angle, to tell you the truth, yes, I was trying to get someone to respond exactly as you did (you made my morning!!) but I didn't say anything I didn't mean 100%. I do think Gulibon is the starter no matter what Conaway does. I do think what Brands said applies to this situation. And I do think there is a case to made that Conaway has done everything in his power to "earn" the spot. So it was a two birds with one stone post. I was stating my honest opinion while still trying to get a rise out of someone for my own amusement. But it wasn't because I dislike PSU, I don't, I'm a big fan of a lot of their wrestlers and how they wrestle. I'm not a big fan of the PSU fans. I've tried to always be transparent, their is no hidden motives. Believe whatever you like buddy!

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Gonzo has one motive here; try to paint Cael Sanderson in as bad a light as he possibly can. He could care less about what is otherwise an interesting discussion. I don't understand why you guys even try to engage him in real wrestling discussion? When dealing with Gonzo, you simply point out one of the many flaws in his trolling and that's ends it...Example: Ramos-Clark- End of Discussion.....Well actually he'll call you stupid and other names and then vow not to respond to you anymore...but of course he will. He's like the kid that keeps touching the hot stove. No matter how many times he gets burned, he can't help but do it again. I almost feel guilty some times because intellectually it's like Iowa vs one of those community colleges.

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Tigs-I can always count on you buddy!!! You will always defend Penn St. by bringing up an irrelevant Iowa situation. That's why I like going back and forth with you. You're as predictable as it gets. I think it's funny you don't understand why people engage me and I don't understand why people engage you. You are the very definition of the classic pot and kettle. I assume you think the same about me? Like I said you are 50% of the reason I even get on this message board. Without you I'd enjoy this so much less.

 

Also, I'd like to point out that I, at least, know how to spell your coaches first name. And you're wrong, I don't have any interest in painting CAEL in a bad light. I like Cael as a competitor and coach. I like what he's done at PSU and I think PSU being good is good for wrestling. If I have any motive it's to paint YOU in a bad light. I like CAEL!

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You obviously have some other motive driving comments don't you think the coaches see these two wrestle every single day for the last 2 years. Conaway and Gulibon are both amazing kids who work their ass off I wish they both could start but your constant planting the seed of scandal or favoritism is absurd. Stop acting like you come from some moral high ground. " your comments are based on nothing more than a dislike for psu" you love that a blue chip recruit had 1 close match with a kid who was expected to be the backup.

 

I assure you whoever starts for PSU is the one who earned that spot on the mat and gives PSU the best chance to repeat as National Champions for he 4th time in a row Nothing more Nothing less. "Stop with the constant I feel bad for this guy or its a shame you burnt that angle out long ago brother and your true motive has been evident in almost every post!

 

tech, one of these guys, Gonzo or superold, is Khalim Khalim from the Penn State scout forums. My guess is superold, but it matters not. You can tell by the passive aggressive writing style and the fact they try to always pit one person within the Penn State program against the other.

 

Instead of Gulibon vs. other wrestlers around the country its Gulibon vs. Conoway or Gulibon vs. Cael Sanderson or Conoway vs. Cael Sanderson.

 

Read Khalim Khalim for a while. Today he is pitting gthe Altons against each other after planting the seed that Dylan won't be able to beat out Vollrath. Khalim Khalim is fixated on the idea that Cael won't be fair in their wrestle offs. Sound familiar? Now read these two for a while and it becomes pretty apparent.

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I'm Gonzo on everything I'm on. I've been Gonzo since I was 18 years old. Gonzo on twitter (I need all the followers I can get!!!), Gonzo in football, Gonzo in baseball, Gonzo in wrestling, etc. I'm not a member of the PSU board, I'm an Iowa fan, though I do read it from time to time. I don't know about "FAIR" or not but I agree with Klim Klim that Gulibon and Alton and Alton will be your starters. I see no way Conaway, Vollrath, and English are the representatives come Big 10's. I hope I'm wrong!!! Call it what you want. Fair, unfair, PSU guy vs PSU guy, whatever. I think Gulibon, Alton, and Alton will be the starters no matter what Conaway, English, and Vollrath do and that will be my OPINION until I see otherwise. End of story, it's an opinion. It's not a conspiracy and I'm certainly not running around under Klim Klim to get my point across. I am and always will be Gonzo!!!

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tech, one of these guys, Gonzo or superold, is Khalim Khalim from the Penn State scout forums. My guess is superold, but it matters not. You can tell by the passive aggressive writing style and the fact they try to always pit one person within the Penn State program against the other.

 

Instead of Gulibon vs. other wrestlers around the country its Gulibon vs. Conoway or Gulibon vs. Cael Sanderson or Conoway vs. Cael Sanderson.

 

Read Khalim Khalim for a while. Today he is pitting gthe Altons against each other after planting the seed that Dylan won't be able to beat out Vollrath. Khalim Khalim is fixated on the idea that Cael won't be fair in their wrestle offs. Sound familiar? Now read these two for a while and it becomes pretty apparent.

 

Tbar1977,

 

You have a habit of twisting my words and making up stories out of thin air. Why? How come you simply can't interact with what I actually said? Why do you have to twist the plain meaning of my words beyond recognition and then accuse me of wrongdoing after the fact? Our exchange here started because you twisted the words of my very first post! You took my statement of,"I haven't nearly seen all of Gulibon's matches, but every time I see him in a highly anticipated match/tournament, he loses." and made it seem like I said he loses all the time in big matches. Clearly, that isn't the straightforward interpretation of my post. I would normally give the benefit of the doubt, but given your history, I don't think you deserve it.

 

Since you think I'm some poster "Khalim Khalim" who has a habit of pitting members of the PSU program against each other, may I ask who I'm supposedly pitting against each other here? And since you say that I "always" do this, when was the last time I did this? Could you mention a few other times as well since this is a regular practice for me?

 

And where did I give any indication that Cael wouldn't be "fair" in the wrestle offs? When did I mention someone getting unfairly treated? Where?

 

I hope you at least attempt to back up your accusations. Please don't take the easy way out and simply disappear like last time.

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Our exchange here started because you twisted the words of my very first post! You took my statement of,"I haven't nearly seen all of Gulibon's matches, but every time I see him in a highly anticipated match/tournament, he loses." and made it seem like I said he loses all the time in big matches.

 

superold, one of the classic ways in which passive aggressive posters to the internet operate is to make a statement that can be interpreted in a number of ways, but is really intended to create an impression in one specific way. You did that when you implied, without stating as fact, that Gulibon loses all his big matches. I know that is not a stark literal interpretation of what you said, but it is is implied by your tone and tenor and the way you wrote that statement.

 

If I write "every time I see Ramos wrestle in a highly anticipated match he loses", it gives me an out to do exactly as you have done, which is to claim I haven't seen all of his matches. But it is implied in a statement such as that one that Ramos loses most or all of his big matches. Like I said, you post in a passive aggressive manner. I don't think you have any issue with the wrestlers, but I do think you are bugged out about Penn State because of either a) the fanbase or b) Cael. This is causing you to write your posts the way that you do, which, again, is passive aggressive. You don't wish to come off that way, then think before you post.

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I do find it somewhat absurd that anyone would think that Cael and the coaching staff favor Gulibon over Conaway for any reason other than it is their opinion that Jimmy would put more points on the board than Jordan come tourney time!! Simply put they are in the business of winning team championships.

 

Everything I have seen has been weighing the pluses and minuses at every wt class. They absolutely love what Conaway, Beitz, English, Volrath, Gingrich and Ruggear bring to the room. You need look no further than Perasall vs Sherlock to understand that Cael will in fact put a walk on in the lineup over a scholly guy if it means better results for the team.

 

I have to agree with those trying to reason with Jimmy Gulibon's detractors. The wrestlers who I have seen give Gulibon trouble have been noticeably larger, more physical. That seems like it should correct itself as Jimmy grows into the weight. Having seen the Gulibon/Whitford match I was amazed at the size difference and the announcers picked up on it as well.

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