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Molinaro v Jenkins - grapple at garden

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Some of you guys are AMAZING. No matter what the facts you CANNOT admit Sanderson does ANY wrong. Jenkins became an abrasive personality. You can love him or hate him, but if you don't think some of that is a byproduct of what went down between him and Sanderson you are KIDDING yourselves.

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Some of you guys are AMAZING. No matter what the facts you CANNOT admit Sanderson does ANY wrong. Jenkins became an abrasive personality. You can love him or hate him, but if you don't think some of that is a byproduct of what went down between him and Sanderson you are KIDDING yourselves.

There's plenty of blame to go around, on both sides. I don't think anybody is disputing that.

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"you can't build a national championship team with Bubba as part of the foundation"

 

It is tough to win with a National Champion in your line up.

Cael ran him out for one reason, Cyler.

 

A good team is almost like a cult. When a stud doesn't buy into the system, but gets to wrestle anyway, what does that say to the guy working his way up the ladder? The message certainly isn't that hard work pays off or that you should always listen to the coach. Sure, it might have made PSU a better team in 2011 if Bubba was there (although only slightly), but at what cost to the development of the supporting cast at PSU?

 

I'll bet that the coaches at Rutgers have learned some hard lessons on this topic.

 

***waiting for the Andrew Long attacks***

How do you know Bubba didn't work hard, that is insane.

Way to prempt the hypocrisy of your own rationale too.

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Lost in all this Cael vs. Bubba talk is the fact that Cael is a grown man and an educator of young men, while Bubba at the time was a college kid. It seems to me that Cael could have taken the high road and maybe helped Bubba get a soft landing somewhere, whether Bubba was right or wrong. Compare how Bubba's transition was handled with how Tom Ryan has handled similar situations with his wrestlers in the past. It's night and day.

 

As to who was right or wrong, we'll never really know debating it on an online forum as outsiders, but as just another voice in this futile online debate, I would bet that MSU158's version of what happened has more than just a little truth in it.

 

As a wrestling fan, right or wrong, I was happy to see Bubba's career end with a bang. It was easy for me to root for a guy with so much potential who had had his share of bad luck. The loser in Bubba's Cinderella story, Taylor, went on to have one of the most dominant seasons in recent memory the following year and has become a legend in his own right, so it looks to me like everyone involved won, including Cael, who is gunning for a fourth consecutive title. Nothing wrong with that.

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Some of you guys are AMAZING. No matter what the facts you CANNOT admit Sanderson does ANY wrong. Jenkins became an abrasive personality. You can love him or hate him, but if you don't think some of that is a byproduct of what went down between him and Sanderson you are KIDDING yourselves.

There's plenty of blame to go around, on both sides. I don't think anybody is disputing that.

 

Actually, quite a few people(INCLUDING this thread) have disputed/ignored/disregarded any negatives on Sanderson's part in the this. Bubba has since been painted as a heathen, while Sanderson came out unscathed. I would be willing to bet that I am in the minority on here saying that Sanderson is MORE, let alone 50/50, to blame for the current Bubba/PSU hatred than Bubba is.

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msu, why even focus on blame? Bubba wasn't going to have it his way with Cael, so he did what was right for him and, oh by the way, it worked out pretty well for him. An NCAA title.

 

Cael did what was right for his team, and, oh buy the way, and to Cael's credit, it has worked out incredibly well for Penn State. Three NCAA titles.

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msu, why even focus on blame? Bubba wasn't going to have it his way with Cael, so he did what was right for him and, oh by the way, it worked out pretty well for him. An NCAA title.

 

Cael did what was right for his team, and, oh buy the way, and to Cael's credit, it has worked out incredibly well for Penn State. Three NCAA titles.

 

I am focusing on it simply because of the questions asked much earlier on this thread. Questions such as why do Jenkins and Molinaro seem to genuinely dislike each other? Also, Brands has been pounded on here quite often for things he has done that I see as considerably less egregious than this. Cael is the BEST of all time as a wrestler and could come close to the best as a coach. I simply think what he did in that situation was VERY bad and it hits a chord with me.

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I am focusing on it simply because of the questions asked much earlier on this thread. Questions such as why do Jenkins and Molinaro seem to genuinely dislike each other? Also, Brands has been pounded on here quite often for things he has done that I see as considerably less egregious than this. Cael is the BEST of all time as a wrestler and could come close to the best as a coach. I simply think what he did in that situation was VERY bad and it hits a chord with me.

 

Well, we have Cael getting bashed in several threads now, so things are evening their way out on the coaches who get bashed tally. This thread has serious potential for more Cael bashing, and so do a couple of others. So blame away if it makes you feel better. Get even.

 

I don't think it will do much in the big scheme of things, but have at it.

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I am focusing on it simply because of the questions asked much earlier on this thread. Questions such as why do Jenkins and Molinaro seem to genuinely dislike each other? Also, Brands has been pounded on here quite often for things he has done that I see as considerably less egregious than this. Cael is the BEST of all time as a wrestler and could come close to the best as a coach. I simply think what he did in that situation was VERY bad and it hits a chord with me.

 

Well, we have Cael getting bashed in several threads now, so things are evening their way out on the coaches who get bashed tally. This thread has serious potential for me Cael bashing, and so do a couple of others. So blame away if it makes you feel better. Get even.

 

I don't think it will do much in the big scheme of things, but have at it.

 

Really, how much ACTUAL bashing have you noticed. I have yet to see him be called anything comparable to an "Angry, Bouncy Midget". :o

 

It really isn't about getting even. Sanderson is a GREAT coach. It seems to me that so many push him being a coach with great MORAL character that I have to question that line of thinking. If people stick to the great coach thing I wouldn't say anything. Morality is a big deal to me. I think Sanderson is great for PSU and NCAA wrestling as a whole. I just don't think he is the angel so many make him out to be.

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Well, we have Cael getting bashed in several threads now, so things are evening their way out on the coaches who get bashed tally. This thread has serious potential for me Cael bashing, and so do a couple of others. So blame away if it makes you feel better. Get even.

 

I don't think it will do much in the big scheme of things, but have at it.

 

Really, how much ACTUAL bashing have you noticed. I have yet to see him be called anything comparable to an "Angry, Bouncy Midget". :o

 

It really isn't about getting even. Sanderson is a GREAT coach. It seems to me that so many push him being coach with great MORAL character that I have to question that line of thinking. If people stick to the great coach thing I wouldn't say anything. Morality is a big deal to me. I think Sanderson is great for PSU and NCAA wrestling as a whole. I just don't think he is the angel so many make him out to be.

 

the same was true for joe paterno

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I am focusing on it simply because of the questions asked much earlier on this thread. Questions such as why do Jenkins and Molinaro seem to genuinely dislike each other? Also, Brands has been pounded on here quite often for things he has done that I see as considerably less egregious than this. Cael is the BEST of all time as a wrestler and could come close to the best as a coach. I simply think what he did in that situation was VERY bad and it hits a chord with me.

 

Well, we have Cael getting bashed in several threads now, so things are evening their way out on the coaches who get bashed tally. This thread has serious potential for me Cael bashing, and so do a couple of others. So blame away if it makes you feel better. Get even.

 

I don't think it will do much in the big scheme of things, but have at it.

 

Really, how much ACTUAL bashing have you noticed. I have yet to see him be called anything comparable to an "Angry, Bouncy Midget". :o

 

It really isn't about getting even. Sanderson is a GREAT coach. It seems to me that so many push him being a coach with great MORAL character that I have to question that line of thinking. If people stick to the great coach thing I wouldn't say anything. Morality is a big deal to me. I think Sanderson is great for PSU and NCAA wrestling as a whole. I just don't think he is the angel so many make him out to be.

 

 

msu, it is possible to bash without name calling. All you have to do is suggest he wronged someone, which is essentially what people are doing here.

 

I don't hero worship, hence you won't find posts from me suggesting he is some sort of moral beacon for everyone to follow. I don't do that with him.

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Flying Tiger-I can show some quotes from PSU fans on this board. Just go check out the thread(s) when the news comes out about Marstellar going somewhere else.

 

To every other PSU fan, including TBar- Some PSU fans are just fine and I have no problem with them. Since PSU started winning titles, I have noticed an exponential rise of annoying, obnoxious, and classless PSU fans in the stands, and on the boards. And when Marstellar hits the college mats, those fans will boo him just because he backed out on his pre-verbal to PSU and chose another school. In fact the classlessness can already be seen.(see the threads that I directed Flying Tiger to)

 

*Apologies that I can not "quote" you guys, or direct you directly to the threads I am speaking of because I am using tapatalk on an old iPhone, and these features do not work.

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msu, it is possible to bash without name calling. All you have to do is suggest he wronged someone, which is essentially what people are doing here.

 

I don't hero worship, hence you won't find posts from me suggesting he is some sort of moral beacon for everyone to follow. I don't do that with him.

 

I guess our opinions on bashing are a tad different. I see what you see as bashing as criticism. EVERY coach gets that. I do, however, respect your responses especially in regards to hero worshiping. Fans often go too far with that and my stance on this topic has a lot to do with that.

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msu, you can take this to the bank, I don't hero worship on anyone except the one who came 2013 years ago.

 

And for matburn, I would hope the Penn State fans would not boo Chance. I wouldn't do that, and I don't know anyone who would do that. At least I don't believe that I do and I would call someone out if they did that. There is no point in it.

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TBar, you can only be accountable for your own actions. I haven't seen any evidence that you are one of those PSU fans that I was talking about.

 

And Amen brother to only hero worshipping that guy who walked the Earth 2013 years ago!

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MSU, all of what you said was public and well known. And, yes, it supports my opinion that Bubba is an individual. If you read what I wrote I'm actually coming out in support of Bubba as a person...in general I've seen him be very kind. But I also know that Bubba is a handful for any coach...Sunderland also had his share of difficulty.

 

If you think that Cael's evaluation of the 2010 lineup was wrong and played favortism, you might have some good points. However, WRT Bubba, I can boil down everything you said as: Cael wanted Bubba to do something for the team and Bubba refused. That supports my point.

 

If by "wanting Bubba to do something for the team" you mean "cutting to a weight he didn't feel was healthy for him", then sure. It's pretty common practice that seniors can choose which weight they want to go to, and trying to force anyone to cut weight "for the good of the team" is contributing to an archaic and dangerous mindset.

 

So you must be outraged that Brands and his "archaic and dangerous mindset" has Kelly cutting down to 149 this season.

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MSU, all of what you said was public and well known. And, yes, it supports my opinion that Bubba is an individual. If you read what I wrote I'm actually coming out in support of Bubba as a person...in general I've seen him be very kind. But I also know that Bubba is a handful for any coach...Sunderland also had his share of difficulty.

 

If you think that Cael's evaluation of the 2010 lineup was wrong and played favortism, you might have some good points. However, WRT Bubba, I can boil down everything you said as: Cael wanted Bubba to do something for the team and Bubba refused. That supports my point.

 

If by "wanting Bubba to do something for the team" you mean "cutting to a weight he didn't feel was healthy for him", then sure. It's pretty common practice that seniors can choose which weight they want to go to, and trying to force anyone to cut weight "for the good of the team" is contributing to an archaic and dangerous mindset.

 

So you must be outraged that Brands and his "archaic and dangerous mindset" has Kelly cutting down to 149 this season.

 

What makes you think it's Brands decision. It is the only spot Kelly has a shot to make the lineup, that was hardly Bubba's issue at the time. He was the best wrestler Penn State had, he should get to choose which weight he competes at and the lesser guys fill in around him. Completely different situations. Kelly made the decision to cut, Bubba did not want to cut.

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If it's as dangerous as you say, then shouldn't Brands forbid the cut to 149? He is the head coach after all and controls what's going on lineup wise, no? Also, didn't Brands have your man crush suck down to 165 his freshman year and flame out at nationals?

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If it's as dangerous as you say, then shouldn't Brands forbid the cut to 149? He is the head coach after all and controls what's going on lineup wise, no?

 

This is a straw man, and you know that. Kelly is making the weight cut, and he appears no worse for wear other than the fact that he is mediocre. Cael was essentially forcing bubba to cut weight to make room for his little brother and his prize recruit, which is completely different. I never said all weight cutting should be disallowed.

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