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What should Jenkins have done after Sanderson arrived?

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he intentionally missed weight at the ESU Open to eliminate the possibly of wrestling at 149 under the NCAA weight management rules.

One minor correction...it was the Mat Town Open.

 

Ironically, if I am reading correctly, that rule no longer exists.

 

He missed weight at 157 which then precluded his going back to 149.

Currently it wouldn't necessarily preclude it per se as long as he could 1.5% it back down prior to 2/15

hey Gimp... do you recall how much he was over weight? just curious if he kept it close to make the 1.5% week-over-week drop back to 157.

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Coming from a big time PSU Fan here - a student - I think Jenkins did all that he could in light of Cael.

 

Cael had a mission coming in, and despite any results between Bubba and Cyler or David, had to completely envelop the program in the idealisms and characteristics that he wanted Penn State Wrestling to emulate. Bubba is a cool dude, and a hell of a wrestler - just not Cael's type of dude. We've all bumped heads with superiors, and this is merely an extreme version of the rebellious nature that us college kids have.

 

Plain and simple, Bubba wanted to stick it to the man. Cael didn't want it. I'd say that they're both in the right, in their own ways. It's really messed up that Bubba wasn't able to finish up his Penn State career/education due to matters outside of his realm of control, and it was sort of messed up on Cael's behalf that he knew the situation of the team when he came in yet still blatantly went against that - but then again, he was trying to build a dynasty.

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Sorry, but Jenkins not finishing his PSU education was fully within his control -- even if he hadn't deliberately tanked classes his 7th semester. He had 8 semesters plus a few summers. That's enough time to get a degree -- or 3 of them if you're John Urschel.

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he intentionally missed weight at the ESU Open to eliminate the possibly of wrestling at 149 under the NCAA weight management rules.

One minor correction...it was the Mat Town Open.

 

Ironically, if I am reading correctly, that rule no longer exists.

 

He missed weight at 157 which then precluded his going back to 149.

Currently it wouldn't necessarily preclude it per se as long as he could 1.5% it back down prior to 2/15

Right...the 1.5% descent rule still applies, but the one weight class rule no longer does.

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He missed weight at 157 which then precluded his going back to 149.

Currently it wouldn't necessarily preclude it per se as long as he could 1.5% it back down prior to 2/15

hey Gimp... do you recall how much he was over weight? just curious if he kept it close to make the 1.5% week-over-week drop back to 157.

 

I think it was pretty close but I wasn't aware of the possible intentional nature of the situation at the time.

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The Molinaro vs Bubba thread made me start to really think what I would have done in Bubba's shoes. SHP said that all here agree that there was plenty of wrong done on BOTH sides. I do NOT like what Bubba did, but I don't see what ELSE he could have done.

 

I would really like to hear HONEST answers from all here. What would you have done and, more importantly to me, why?

 

To me he had 2 legit options.

 

1. Wrestle 149 for his senior year like the coaches wanted him to and which would have been the best option for the team.

2. If he wasn't willing to do #1 then transfer immediately.

 

What he did instead was flunk classes on purposes to be academically ineligible the first semester and then miss weight at 157 for Mat Town and wrestle anyway at 165 so he wasn't eligible to wrestle 149 that season no matter what, guaranteeing he got the redshirt he wanted.

 

Here's a question back at you and I'd appreciate an honest answer. What would you have done with a wrestler who did the above things if you were coach?

 

+1. This thread could, and should, have ended after novalion's response.

 

I like Bubba. But can you imagine, as a coach, having a kid on your team intentionally flunking, so that he can flout what you asked of him?

 

Some objected that Bubba couldn't hold 149. But Bubba himself never made that assertion. If you look at his interviews on flo and elsewhere, he just says he wanted a redshirt year since he felt "banged up." And needless to say, whatever you think of Cael, he's not going to have a kid wrestle 149 if a trainer says he can't get there in a healthy way. Bubba just wanted a RS year. My guess is he needed it to have enough time to graduate without having to pay tuition (especially after self-flunking), but that's just a guess.

 

Some also retorted that Bubba was "told" he could RS and then bump up to 157. Assuming its true that this was the original plan, everybody knows that RS plans are n-e-v-e-r set in stone -- as it always depends on team needs. A coach may say you're wrestling from day one, then ask you to RS if another kid shows he can do just as well, or a coach may ask you to RS and then pull your shirt when you're clearly the best option. Or.... when a new coach comes in with a couple top transfers in tow, making it clear the team's best interests call for you to wrestle right away. If you look at the guys wrestling at guys bunched up at those weights and their seniority, it made perfect sense for Bubba to finish out at 149 without a RS.

 

Lets also remember how unusual it is for a NCAA finalist to take a RS (other than Olympic) in the first place. Usually a RS is to help a guy get ready to make a competitive run. Bubba was already a NCAA finalist and Jr World Champ. The notion that he needed a RS year borders on ridiculous. He may have wanted it for personal reasons, but the needs of the team come first.

 

There's lots that I've criticized Sanderson about, but he gets 0% blame here. Maybe their personalities clashed, but based on what Bubba himself admitted that he did -- intentionally flunking, and then wrestling up 2 weights, all to coerce a RS year -- Sanderson had no choice.

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Lets also remember how unusual it is for a NCAA finalist to take a RS (other than Olympic) in the first place. Usually a RS is to help a guy get ready to make a competitive run. Bubba was already a NCAA finalist and Jr World Champ. The notion that he needed a RS year borders on ridiculous. He may have wanted it for personal reasons, but the needs of the team come first.

Not that ridiculous. There once was a guy named Burley, who took a RS after being a champ and multiple-time finalist.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Lets also remember how unusual it is for a NCAA finalist to take a RS (other than Olympic) in the first place. Usually a RS is to help a guy get ready to make a competitive run. Bubba was already a NCAA finalist and Jr World Champ. The notion that he needed a RS year borders on ridiculous. He may have wanted it for personal reasons, but the needs of the team come first.[\quote]

Not that ridiculous. There once was a guy named Burley, who took a RS after being a champ and multiple-time finalist.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Same with McIravy

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Jenkins wanted the shirt to fully heal his back injury from the previous year. If you'll recall, he went 0-2 at nationals as the #2 seed and returning national runner-up -- and didn't just lose, but got majored in consolations and looked like he was hurt pretty bad.

 

Then again, the trainers and medical staff cleared him to go during his shirt year, and he didn't object to competing in opens and daily practice. So, as always, you never completely know with Bubba.

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I don't think Jenkins was in the wrong. But I don't think Cael was in the wrong either. These kind of things happen all the time.

 

The only thing I can say is Jenkins should have transferred earlier and saved himself the trouble of failing classes. And because Jenkins was the college student and Cael the coach, I think Cael should have started that conversation about transferring a lot earlier. Of course, Cael himself was still young, so maybe he hadn't reached that level of maturity yet, and maybe he didn't foresee the situation playing out like it did.

 

It was just an unfortunate situation. Cael is a great coach, but he's very socially conservative, and that doesn't work for a lot of people. For example, seemingly for no reason, he tweeted about not liking tattoos, and said wrestlers should never have them. Yet, Burroughs seems to be doing okay with his. Just saying.

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I don't think Jenkins was in the wrong. But I don't think Cael was in the wrong either. These kind of things happen all the time.

 

The only thing I can say is Jenkins should have transferred earlier and saved himself the trouble of failing classes. And because Jenkins was the college student and Cael the coach, I think Cael should have started that conversation about transferring a lot earlier. Of course, Cael himself was still young, so maybe he hadn't reached that level of maturity yet, and maybe he didn't foresee the situation playing out like it did.

 

It was just an unfortunate situation. Cael is a great coach, but he's very socially conservative, and that doesn't work for a lot of people. For example, seemingly for no reason, he tweeted about not liking tattoos, and said wrestlers should never have them. Yet, Burroughs seems to be doing okay with his. Just saying.

 

I am fine with Cael not wanting him for all of those reasons.

On the same hand I am fine with Bubba doing what he did to make the best of what he had left as well.

 

When people defend him however based on "moral high ground" it is laughable, especially if Ruth takes the mat for PSU this season.

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3. Jenkins was pulled out of redshirt his freshman year by Sunderland. This was considered completely unnecessary by many PSU fans and a waste of a year of eligibility. This also caused Nathan Galloway to transfer out.

 

Not quite true. Galloway transferred out (flamed out?) before they pulled Bubba's shirt during the 2006-07 season.

 

Galloway wrestled (lost) a home dual on Dec 15

http://wrestlingstats.com/pennstate/vie ... eason=2007

 

Bubba debuted at the VA Duals on Jan 7, going 3-1 up a class at 157.

http://wrestlingstats.com/pennstate/vie ... eason=2007

 

* God bless the memory of Jay Hammond, who made data like this possible.

 

Those result strings seem to validate what I was saying more then anything else but if you don't want to take my word for it, here is the official press release. Note that this came out shortly after Jenkins was placed in the starting lineup at 157:

 

By Pat Donghia Penn State University

01/16/2007

 

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - Nathan Galloway (State College, Pa.) has left the Nittany Lion wrestling team and has been given his release to transfer to another institution. The senior from State College informed head coach Troy Sunderland and his coaching staff of his decision early this week.

 

"We appreciate everything Nathan has done for our program during his years as a Nittany Lion," Sunderland said. "We are going to do everything we can to help him continue his academic and athletic careers and wish him the best."

 

Galloway is 14-7 this season. He leaves Penn State with a 90-54 career record.

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Why is this issue being rehashed? It is done and over with. I would be willing to bet that both sides could have handled it differently.

 

The Molinaro vs. Jenkins thread brought it all back and it made me wonder what most posters here would have done if they were Jenkins and a new coach came in nixing his plans to RS and forcing him to go 149 even though he was the best 157lbr they had. I am not saying Jenkins handled it REMOTELY close to the best way he could, but I wonder what people TRULY would have done in his shoes......

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College kids are dumb and immature. Bubba acted in a dumb and immature way.

 

Coaches are supposed to be role models and look out for the best interests of their student-athletes. Cael did not do this - he came in with a win-at-all-costs attitude. He's not accountable for Bubba's hairbrained response to the situation, but he could have made more of an effort to look out for the overall well-being of his new charge. There's more to a wrestling coaches' job than coaching wrestling.

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College kids are dumb and immature. Bubba acted in a dumb and immature way.

 

Coaches are supposed to be role models and look out for the best interests of their student-athletes. Cael did not do this - he came in with a win-at-all-costs attitude. He's not accountable for Bubba's hairbrained response to the situation, but he could have made more of an effort to look out for the overall well-being of his new charge. There's more to a wrestling coaches' job than coaching wrestling.

 

Then in your opinion, what could Bubba have done to protect his own career? He wanted to go 157 or redshirt. Cael said absolutely not to 157. What else could he have possibly done? This is his life. Not sure why so many people are brainwashed that flunking a college course at PSU is somehow childish or "douchey" especially when it is literally the only way he could have saved the year of eligibility.

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College kids are dumb and immature. Bubba acted in a dumb and immature way.

 

Coaches are supposed to be role models and look out for the best interests of their student-athletes. Cael did not do this - he came in with a win-at-all-costs attitude. He's not accountable for Bubba's hairbrained response to the situation, but he could have made more of an effort to look out for the overall well-being of his new charge. There's more to a wrestling coaches' job than coaching wrestling.

 

Then in your opinion, what could Bubba have done to protect his own career? He wanted to go 157 or redshirt. Cael said absolutely not to 157. What else could he have possibly done? This is his life. Not sure why so many people are brainwashed that flunking a college course at PSU is somehow childish or "douchey" especially when it is literally the only way he could have saved the year of eligibility.

 

Once again, he could have transferred, which is what he did.

 

Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes you are handed lemonaid, but other times its just the lemon. It is then up to you to decide what to make of that lemon. Both parties made the best of it.

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College kids are dumb and immature. Bubba acted in a dumb and immature way.

 

Coaches are supposed to be role models and look out for the best interests of their student-athletes. Cael did not do this - he came in with a win-at-all-costs attitude. He's not accountable for Bubba's hairbrained response to the situation, but he could have made more of an effort to look out for the overall well-being of his new charge. There's more to a wrestling coaches' job than coaching wrestling.

 

Then in your opinion, what could Bubba have done to protect his own career? He wanted to go 157 or redshirt. Cael said absolutely not to 157. What else could he have possibly done? This is his life. Not sure why so many people are brainwashed that flunking a college course at PSU is somehow childish or "douchey" especially when it is literally the only way he could have saved the year of eligibility.

 

Once again, he could have transferred, which is what he did.

 

Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes you are handed lemonaid, but other times its just the lemon. It is then up to you to decide what to make of that lemon. Both parties made the best of it.

 

Are you sure his transferring was even an option prior to what he did? Doing what he did, already having the option to transfer, makes NO sense!

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Look, I'm not going to ask Cael what his exact words were to Bubba, but I'm confident that had Bubba simply said to Cael that he was unhappy with his decision to have him go at 157 and asked for a transfer to Arizona State that Cael would have signed the papers.

 

Making a mockery of the situation, which imo is what he basically did, did him no favors with the new coach. And again, this worked out for both parties. This blame game going on here is just internet noise.

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Look, I'm not going to ask Cael what his exact words were to Bubba, but I'm confident that had Bubba simply said to Cael that he was unhappy with his decision to have him go at 157 and asked for a transfer to Arizona State that Cael would have signed the papers.

 

Making a mockery of the situation, which imo is what he basically did, did him no favors with the new coach. And again, this worked out for both parties. This blame game going on here is just internet noise.

 

It's obvious that the only party that you feel could have made a "mockery of the situation" could be the student, not the new coach in a new setting with a conflict of interest.

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Look, I'm not going to ask Cael what his exact words were to Bubba, but I'm confident that had Bubba simply said to Cael that he was unhappy with his decision to have him go at 157 and asked for a transfer to Arizona State that Cael would have signed the papers.

 

Making a mockery of the situation, which imo is what he basically did, did him no favors with the new coach. And again, this worked out for both parties. This blame game going on here is just internet noise.

 

yeah agree. all bubba had to do was look into the future, see exactly how things would have worked out, and then pick the best option based on hindsight. too bad he choose to make a mockery of things instead.

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Look, I'm not going to ask Cael what his exact words were to Bubba, but I'm confident that had Bubba simply said to Cael that he was unhappy with his decision to have him go at 157 and asked for a transfer to Arizona State that Cael would have signed the papers.

 

Making a mockery of the situation, which imo is what he basically did, did him no favors with the new coach. And again, this worked out for both parties. This blame game going on here is just internet noise.

 

It's obvious that the only party that you feel could have made a "mockery of the situation" could be the student, not the new coach in a new setting with a conflict of interest.

 

I know you guys want to blame Cael for everything under the sun, so you should just do that already and stop *****footing around. :D

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