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NJDan

Flo Blows. Or Am I Wrong?

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I am all for the media making a profit, but I do have an issue with Flowrestling. Seems to me that much more of their content is behind a paywall than last year. I don't even quarrel with that, or wouldn't if Flo wasn't charging much more than, say, one pays (indirectly) for ESPN or directly for BTN, certainly in relationship to the amount of programming Flo has.

 

But my real question/gripe is: Does Flo even pay for, say, the rights to the Cliff Keen Vegas tournament. If they do not (or pay only nominally) I would think that the tourney organizers should insist that Flo make the broadcast available without a paywall.

 

Does anyone know if Flo pays. Or is payment just for us suckers?

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My problem with them is the production quality of the product..especially the live stuff. You would think some on screen graphics including score etc.. wouldn't be that hard. Then the announcing is terrible. Bader is likable enough on one side but the play by play being screamed into the mic is irritating....They should take some lessons from shane sparks on how to call a match.

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who watched the boston v psu feed? It was great and free. Lehigh has beeing doing the same and rutgers has had great feeds for free I have no problem with charging money but most schools haue betteur video services and they don't claim to be the best at it why doesn't fl use those service providers? I wouo much rather pay a school to watch their matches than flo if I pay the school it is almost always good coverage and even if it is bad I can feel like I am supporting the program and lettin the school know people care about seeing wrestling. Flow is about himself

 

Don't get me started on how annoying flo is with their commentary I hate listening to theu

 

Ten year old company still having major issues

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yes, we pay rights fees. just one part of the enormous overhead of doing a live event.

 

as far as on-screen graphics, we do have them when certain tournament software is used (ie trackwrestling).

i don't know the technical jargon or details, but our programmers have written code to integrate with trackwrestling.

 

as far as supporting a school/program - you are in a sense. fees went to edinboro for the rights. fees go to the directors of cklv. or utc for the scuffle, etc.

 

as far as individual college productions - i won't get in to specifics, but it's much easier to do an event in the same gym, with the equipment already there, with your own secured and familiar technology, and on 1 mat, than it is to travel the country with a gang of equipment for 8, 10, 12 mats with a million moving parts in each venue.

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No, ESPN is paid well. But event-for-event, Flo charges MUCH more and does a pretty bad job both in making sure the website consistently functions and in providing good camera works. As for their announcers, I like them OK, but others hate them.

 

And it's not a rare skill. As BR notes, plenty of local stations and even colleges themselves do the same thing and do it better. Hell, amateurs on Youtube do it just as well a lot of the time.

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No, ESPN is paid well. But event-for-event, Flo charges MUCH more and does a pretty bad job both in making sure the website consistently functions and in providing good camera works.

 

good point. and espn and flo have identically sized audiences so flo is probably raking in billios.

 

And it's not a rare skill. As BR notes, plenty of local stations and even colleges themselves do the same thing and do it better. Hell, amateurs on Youtube do it just as well a lot of the time.

 

also agree. literally anyone could do better. thats why im glad youre volunteering to do so at your own expense and upload it to youtube for everyone to see. youtube kicks in a few shekels per view so you should recoup you expenses no problem.

 

man, really looking forward to the awesome NJDan productions in the future!

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I get why they are charging for events like they do. I'm not happy about it, because a lot of this content used to be free, but I totally understand it. They are a business and need to make money

 

But one thing that really ticked me off the other day is trying to read CP's CKLV preview, only to find out it was premium content that I would have had to purchase ANOTHER membership above and beyond the $20 a month I'm already paying to view. Are you kidding?

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Jaroslav Hasek, this is just an idiotic response. I can't play basketball as well as anyone in the NBA, does that mean I can't criticize the Knicks. I can't produce a football game. Does that mean I can't criticize a broadcast on NBC or Fox. I have never directed a movie, does that mean I cannot say a movie is bad or that one movie is better than another?

 

Instead of being defensive, you should produce a better product and charge less for it. Do basic things, like showing the score and stoping the constant buffering. Do at least as good a job as BTN or the colleges themselves do in streaming. If you did both, you'd make more money not less.

 

And while you are at it, don't put links of FB that are not visible to those who click.

 

Meanwhile, I would discourage schools or tourneys from giving you exclusive rights, even if you do pay some nominal rights fee.

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Any comparison to ESPN is inapt. Yes, you personally pay less for it per month than Flo. That's because everyone with cable pays for ESPN whether they want to or not. I'm sure Flo would charge you less if they could make money from anyone with cable, whether they watch or not.

 

I don't really understand the complaining that goes on, except for the people who have had billing issues. Yes, some of this content used to be free. So what? It's not free for them to produce it. Why should it be free to watch? You're getting content that is otherwise completely unavailable and they will only charge what the market will bear.

 

I really enjoyed watching the Cliff Keen finals and Iowa vs. Edinboro. It's worth the price to me. I hate getting shouted at by Bader whenever someone fakes a shot, but I'm willing to put up with it to see great wrestling. If it's not as valuable to you as it is to me, just don't pay.

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NJDan - you can complain all you want. the easy remedy is to not pay for the service you dont think is worth the money, but thats your call. i dont work for flo by the way. nor have i met anyone who does.

 

also the buffering is because of your computer and/or internet connection. i had no buffering issues when i watched.

 

flo is a small business operating on (i feel safe in assuming this) minuscule margins. businesses like that only exist because of the passion the employees have for what they doing. OF COURSE there will be ways for them to improve. I"M SURE they welcome constructive criticism. but if you want actually be helpful, MAYBE dont start a thread titled "Flo Blows. Or Am I Wrong?"

 

just my opinion. feel free to ignore.

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Sorry if I thought you worked for Flo. No offense intended.

 

no worries. not at all offended!

 

As for the headline, I do not apologize-- everyone tries to grab attention. And I believe my criticism is indeed constructive.

 

i empathize with your frustrations and there are constructive elements of your "critique" but not at all the tone one would take if you actually wanted to be constructive or just be taken seriously!

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of course there are things we need to work on. we're always trying to improve. and we've only been at the live events thing for a year.

 

i realize the billing and customer service issues were initially a p.i.a, but that's come a million miles since last year and will only get more streamlined.

 

in regards to quality of production, yes, it would always be nice to have on board scores/graphics but at this time, it's just not feasible for every event.

 

im not sure if you've noticed, but we've improved both the interface and resolution quality of our live video player. it solved a lot of problems on the users end.

 

honestly, the timing of this thread is kinda odd, considering the production from vegas was flawless.

 

you opened with this "But my real question/gripe is: Does Flo even pay for, say, the rights to the Cliff Keen Vegas tournament."

 

and i answered you. Yes, we do. and then you moved on to other topics and also gave no rationale for this: "Meanwhile, I would discourage schools or tourneys from giving you exclusive rights, even if you do pay some nominal rights fee."

 

so idk where you're going with this.

 

what do you mean 'usa videos are better' ? which videos?

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USA Wrestling Videos.

 

My point is that if you pay rights fees that are only nominal, the schools and tournaments would serve their fans better by foregoing them and allowing free access. You don't say how much you pay, so I assume it's very little. Even if the score is NOT on the screen, your announcers could say it from time to time. It's not hard. They also fail to give basic info-- where the wrestler is from, his record, something about his career to date. It's easy. Hell, I could do color better than your guys simply by preparing for 1 hour before the broadcast. And as for the quality of the text on your site-- I know it's not the emphasis-- the less said the better.

 

I did not watch today. Maybe you did a good job. But you have lost a lot of goodwill with me and, I suspect many others. I'd be more likely to pay for a single event rather than a subscription that may be hard to cancel.

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which USAW videos? from where and from what events? you DO know we did most of their major events, right? Fargo, University's, Fila Cadets, US Open, Fila JR's, World Team Trials, the Russia Duals.

 

why would you assume the rights fees would be nominal?

 

our announcers know when there are graphics on the screen and when there aren't. and when they're aren't, they say time and score very often. watch some of the archived matches when they're up, and you'll see.

 

to be sure, there are things we can improve on, but im pretty sure that isn't one of them. which event without scores on was this a problem at? i'll go review them.

 

it seems the pushback isn't so much the product, but rather the fact you have to pay for them. and i'll tell ya, whether i worked for flo or not, the biggest reason why wrestling has struggled is because it doesn't have it's own economy. and it certainly hasn't had any non-endemic attraction.

 

when flo broadcasts events, or espn with NCAA's, or anyone else for that matter, it's a win-win for everyone. more exposure, more investment into programs. intrinsic to that is paying a subscription or a higher cable bill, or more for pepsi. but without it, wrestling will have a difficult time maintaining position or even surviving. what's going on, is a good thing.

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This topic is old. If you can do it better and cheaper then please do. Please engage your brain for just a sec. and think about the cost that Flo assumes for rights, equipment, personnel etc...

We are enjoying unprescidented wrestling coverage. Flo has also made USA wrestling "up" their game. For all we know, Flo has made ESPN realize the wrestling market and has since increased coverage.

I love the guys like Bader, and so do many others.

There is a very simple option that Flo offers as an exclusive option on every Flo cast. Flo has develed the patent technology for you to hit a special and secret "no sound" option which is typically on the bottom right of your screen. You have the ability to hit the patented Flo exclusive option icon at any time in a Flo video in the event you do not appreciate the excitement and passion from the guy giving commentary on a match...you know, from the guy who drove a few hrs in a snow storm in Edinboro PA to catch a flight to a Vegas...jet lag and all.

Try turning off the sound and record your own commentary and critique your own work. I have had the privledge to do a few Flo events and it is not easy. And BTW, the Flo guys are very good at letting the viewer know the score and time, most of the time.

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