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NJDan

Flo Blows. Or Am I Wrong?

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Lol how people defend flo even when people are charged for the service that they didnt even want.

 

XXX websites do that too. Do we assume they also made honest, recurring mistakes like flo? All the same arguments apply. They shouldn't be wacking people's credit cards without permission or making it near impossible to cancel.

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I think Flo's model of paywalling matches for 48 hours (up to a week) after the fact is reasonable. And making the videos public after a short period is smart business - it keeps viewers from reposting them onto Youtube or whatever; and Flo retains the ad revenue.

 

 

And Bader is great. So much better to have knowledgeable commentary from a former wrestler who is also totally dialed-in to all the latest in the sport... which is much more than we can say for ESPN, BTN, etc. - although it is funny to imagine Anthony Robles stifling his sighs and rolling his eyes constantly at his colleagues from behind the mic.

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I love Flo and have absolutely no problem with them charging for certain features, nor how much they charge. They are a pretty unique company in the variety of coverage they provide, from different levels of wrestling to locations around the US and world. They work hard to give us these opportunities to watch stuff that would never have been available before and are still a somewhat fledgling company in that they aren't raking in the big bucks yet. They are heavily reliant on using the money they make just to continue giving us the coverages they do, much less turn a profit.

 

That's not to say Flo is perfect. They definitely could improve the website and payment methods. Glitches are fairly common, as well as problems with credit cards being charged incorrectly.

 

But like I said, they're still a young company. Websites improve, as do costs, once the company builds a comfortable base and can focus more on the finer aspects of customer satisfaction as opposed to the main meat of what we all really want: wrestling coverage. Which they happen to be doing a great job of

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recurring billing is the industry standard. just about everyone uses it. i signed up for btn today to watch a few duals, and guess what, it's a recurring process. i'll be charged every month. to cancel, i have to find the links on their page, just like you do on flo. there's not exactly flashing neon lights telling you how to go about it. i just went through the process of figuring out how to cancel btn, because i know i'll want to when the season ends. you just click on a menu option at the top of the page and go through a couple more links.

 

same with flo. i don't think very many people are patient and diligent enough to actually go through the process, because it's quite simple. you click on your name at the top of the page and go to 'account settings'. if that escapes you, you can click on support and write an email.

 

have there been problems with the support/email option? sure. but its exponentially better now. quite honestly, when we first started doing live events, our support staff and process wasnt prepared for that type of volume. that's now changed.

 

we're certainly not trying to get over on people and trying to make a quick buck. we plan to be in this for a long time and the wrestling community is important to us. in the end, we're trying to grow the sport and it's accessibility and reach. we want users to be satisfied and confident and have the best viewing experience they can.

 

as STL says above, we invest everything back in to the web site and resources so we can both expand and improve our coverages.

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I posted this earlier in another thread but didn't get any feedback.

 

Does anyone like this type of marketing/promotion? I don't, and frankly feel like it is quite unprofessional.

 

My issue is a huge portion of their delivery appears to be directed towards our youth. You only have to hear one live pbp to understand this.

 

Here is the promo piece https://vine.co/v/hxbapg5JZEK

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yes, you started a whole thread and didn't get one single reply. so interrupt a conversation on another thread.

 

its not marketing and it's not a 'promo piece'. we were screwing around in the office. and my heavens, there's cursing in there!

 

we get it. you don't like flo. it's the second thread you started stating it. now go back on the other forum and talk on your secret LXP board about how terrible we are.

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yes, you started a whole thread and didn't get one single reply. so interrupt a conversation on another thread.

 

its not marketing and it's not a 'promo piece'. we were screwing around in the office. and my heavens, there's cursing in there!

 

we get it. you don't like flo. it's the second thread you started stating it. now go back on the other forum and talk on your secret LXP board about how terrible we are.

 

 

I didn't start this thread...and I like the coverage flo has...I just think material like that isn't professional. Do you think it is? Do you want kids watching that?

 

If it wasn't a promo piece why was it linked on twitter where all of your followers could check it out?

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i know you didn't start this thread. but you have started two other anti-flo threads including the one about this video.

 

it wasn't a promo piece. it was just a stupid video. we do lots of stupid stuff. (surprise!)

 

sorry you didn't like it.

 

anyway, that's off topic for this thread.

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brew you have to realize though flow has a platform to be a leader in journalism they are not journalists

 

they are all about fluff and hype without any real substance and clearly market to middle schoolers but they probably do get a good number of paying subscribers from those ranks

 

just got a call last night and we were talking wrestling and when discussing one of the matches I was told oh i am not sure i don't watch any flow video with the volume on which is something i regularly hear i don't think people enjoy the service as is but rather they want to see wrestling and put up with it

 

in all reality it is probably something as simple as middle school kids tweeting and facebook commenting on the stupid immature stuff flo does that makes them think it is popular while adults don't really engage so they must think there isn't an audience

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Husker Du I love Flo but I do have a grip= (Super 32) Big buildup on tournament, Flo down there a week ahead and didn't see that there was going to be a problem about the viewer not knowing who is wrestling? Blaming it on Super 32 and taking no responsibility for it. Flo is suppose to be the experts about how to run a tournament this size and viewers must know who is wrestling and on what mat. Flo should require that the tournament promoter use Track wrestling if they can't get there act together. Then after the first day nightmare telling everybody it will be taken care of but the problem still there other than the final matches. The greatest high school tournament of the year and I'm sure a lot more people paying to join Flo to watch Super 32. Sometimes it is better to admit fault than to be smug about it.

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I think Flo has revolutionized the sport for sure. having all those matches in one site is such a service to the wrestling community. That said, their customer service is REALLY bad. If they could get their act together with that, they'd really be onto something. I am apprehensive about signing up again b/c it took me many weeks to cancel my account with them. It was impossible to reach anyone to help.

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Yeah, it really sucked on Saturday. I had my screen open with split screens of all of the Semi-final matches. I would decide which one I wanted audio on. If one match ended early, I could go full screen on the others. I then watched the consy's and finals all from the comforts of my couch. Oh how I miss the days of not having this access available. :roll:

 

Flo provides a great service and is well worth the price.

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Husker Du I love Flo but I do have a grip= (Super 32) Big buildup on tournament, Flo down there a week ahead and didn't see that there was going to be a problem about the viewer not knowing who is wrestling? Blaming it on Super 32 and taking no responsibility for it. Flo is suppose to be the experts about how to run a tournament this size and viewers must know who is wrestling and on what mat. Flo should require that the tournament promoter use Track wrestling if they can't get there act together. Then after the first day nightmare telling everybody it will be taken care of but the problem still there other than the final matches. The greatest high school tournament of the year and I'm sure a lot more people paying to join Flo to watch Super 32. Sometimes it is better to admit fault than to be smug about it.

 

User experience is greatly enhanced when there are names/scores/clocks on the screen. we'd love to have that at every event, sure. unfortunately right now, we haven't written code to integrate every single tournament software to our live feed.

 

but there are several inaccuracies/misconceptions in your post.

 

1. we weren't there a week ahead of time. not sure where you got that. not that it matters anyway. we could have been there a month ahead of time and there still wouldn't have been graphics.

 

2. we certainly didn't 'blame' S32. we said there isn't on board graphics because of the tournament software they used (and they use two different ones).

 

3. "Flo is suppose to be the experts about how to run a tournament this size and viewers must know who is wrestling and on what mat. Flo should require that the tournament promoter use Track wrestling if they can't get there act together." We don't "run tournaments." we broadcast and cover them. we can make suggestions, and often do. but tournament operations are the responsibility of, and at the discretion of, the owners of the tournament.

 

4. We never told anyone the problem would be fixed on the second day. we said it would be easier to follow because the mat assignments would be on the brackets and quarters would be held on 4 consecutive mats. Also, the finals didn't have graphics on them either.

 

5. not sure where i was smug.

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I think Flo has revolutionized the sport for sure. having all those matches in one site is such a service to the wrestling community. That said, their customer service is REALLY bad. If they could get their act together with that, they'd really be onto something. I am apprehensive about signing up again b/c it took me many weeks to cancel my account with them. It was impossible to reach anyone to help.

 

sal, thanks for your support. to clarify, to cancel your subscription, you hover over your name at the top of the flo home page then go to account settings > manage subscription

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Du: I realize you are probably volunteering your time in this thread. But let me try one of my more pressing concerns. Given the very long lag (1+ year now) in straightening out payment/refund/cancellation/customer service communication blackouts/aggressive payment recovery in credit card payment disputes; what measures are in place to protect user credit cards from theft, which are obviously kept on file?

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Also, is there a policy in place regarding the release of paywall content for open viewing? I ask because I believe it would be healthier for the sport if kids without access to credit cards, were able to see matches a bit closer to the date of action.

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And IMO those who sign up for a yearly service then want to cancel the day after the event they wanted to watch has ended are weasels. That's obviously not the deal.

As stated by you, they pushed the new content into the technique wave product. Those of us who were not interested in the technique wave tried canceling the subscription at the time. Flo did not describe the product at the time to be as expansive as it turned out to be (remember it was all about DT vs dake Allstar event). Flo captured nearly all live content from that point forward and buried it behind the paywall. I not only had difficulty canceling, but I got beat out of the full month I paid for after I cancelled. I''ve got different ideas on who owns the weasel characterization.

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i'll try to hit all of them scribe

 

1. there has never been a case where someone's cc # was compromised by another business. (also, there's never been a blackout. the only event that ever went down for a period of time was freak show due to an electrical outage.)

 

2. the policy is 48hrs after an event. at that time videos from live productions are changed to free. making them free immediately would cause less people signing up to watch live, which in turn would make for us not covering costs, which in turn would make it impossible to do live events.

 

3. i know what you mean about the schedule of live events in the beginning. when we first started live (for all intents and purposes, the AS Classic last year) upcoming contracts weren't in place and we didn't want to guarantee/publicize things that we're concrete. they now are and we've had up a schedule in advance http://www.flowrestling.org/ext/wrestli ... f#schedule.

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I really don't have anything against flo, but here are a few things that irk me about Flo:

 

#1 As Lost has mentioned, the split between Flo Pro and Flo Insider is a bit ridiculous.

#2 I also wish they would fix the system to honor you for your time paid. If you want to subscribe for 1 month only and then cancel it should just not auto renew and still allow you to view the rest of the month. From my experience when you cancel you are done that instant and don't even get to continue to for the rest of the month.

#3 I also hate the cult following. This really has nothing to do with Flo itself, but the people responding to anything negative about Flo saying if you can do something better than come up with something better are just childish responses. I mean seriously, Flo is a business and as a business you should welcome feedback which I'm not saying Flo doesn't do. Sure they aren't going to do everything you ask of them, but Flo is not perfect.

 

Also, the argument of well don't use Flo if you don't like it is childish too. Take Vegas for instance. Other than the Intermat blog, which Seton Hall does a great job with, there is no other alternative in terms of video for Vegas. So as a fan of course im going to subscribe to watch my team. My issue has nothing to do with paying for content. My issue is to only help make things better. When businesses have very little competition then they tend to become complacent and ignore big issues because they simply can. I would hope Flo would address some of these issues in the future.

 

Now here comes a little praise. One of my biggest complaints in the past was that they didn't show the schedule so there was no way of seeing what was going to be covered for a particular month. They seemed to have fixed this issue as Husker stated above and I definitely appreciate that.

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i'll try to hit all of them scribe

 

1. there has never been a case where someone's cc # was compromised by another business. (also, there's never been a blackout. the only event that ever went down for a period of time was freak show due to an electrical outage.)

 

2. the policy is 48hrs after an event. at that time videos from live productions are changed to free. making them free immediately would cause less people signing up to watch live, which in turn would make for us not covering costs, which in turn would make it impossible to do live events.

 

3. i know what you mean about the schedule of live events in the beginning. when we first started live (for all intents and purposes, the AS Classic last year) upcoming contracts weren't in place and we didn't want to guarantee/publicize things that we're concrete. they now are and we've had up a schedule in advance http://www.flowrestling.org/ext/wrestli ... f#schedule.

i appreciate it. I'm going to hold out a while longer and watch development in customer service, but my position and opinion is evolving toward contributing funds in the future.

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3. i know what you mean about the schedule of live events in the beginning. when we first started live (for all intents and purposes, the AS Classic last year) upcoming contracts weren't in place and we didn't want to guarantee/publicize things that we're concrete. they now are and we've had up a schedule in advance http://www.flowrestling.org/ext/wrestli ... f#schedule.

 

why so little coverage of college I could really care less about high school for the most prt

 

I would think bridging the gap between high school and college would be important to retain customers if you have a lot in the high school ranks why not cover opens and other events where a lot of redshirt freshmen wrestle so people can follow the guys they saw the year before in high school

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I think having access to Flo has put us light years ahead of where we were even just a few years ago. I will admit, there are things I like and things I don't about Flo. That being said, I am not going to come on here and bash them about what they are doing wrong, unless I have constructive criticism to provide for them. Flo has to make $$ as well and in the end it is about all we have. I personally choose to view the parts of Flo that are free. We are just lucky to have someone who covers wrestling on a national level.

 

Someone on the first page of the thread mentioned Shane Sparks. Being from Wisconsin, we are BLESSED to have him cover wrestling for us. BadgerStateWrestling.com is incredible.

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As far as the quality of the service, in the past I have had a few complaints, and I'm not in love with a lot of the commentating (actually I think it's just that Bader's voice doesn't agree well with my ears, love the guy though and love his passion, just doesn't sound great coming out of my computer), but this year so far I have been very pleasantly surprised by the quality of the video.

 

For cost, I don't know about you guys but I don't think it is at all unreasonable to pay ~$7 per event, not to mention all of the interviews and other video that is posted (much of which is free). Hell, if you watch 4 events a month you're paying $5 per coverage... that's more than worth it to me. If you got up and drove to a single one out of those events you'd spend more than that on gas before you ever get in the door (unless you live on campus like myself...).

 

Anyone have any sort of ballpark for # of paying subscribers?

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