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Logan Steiber will win the Hodge this year

By scribe, in College Wrestling

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LoStNuMbEr    320

LoStNuMbEr
Posted
Lets not get ahead of ourselves and start using those criteria for guessing who wins the Hodge. Each year they seem to come up with which guy they want to give the award to and then simply shape the criteria to fit their agenda. I recall an unedefeated National champ being snubbed for a guy who was pinned in a spladle while he counted the lights on the ceiling. Or Oliver being snubbed in spit of his pin total. And let us not forget Jake Varners resume being virtually ignored in picking a guy who escaped with the narrowest of wins in the NCAA final. Gentlemen, this award means less and less with each passing head scratcher and that's a shame. Who wins the award this season? I'm going with a lower division disabled wrestler this time around.

This is kind of right, but to less of an extent than you're asserting. Gavin didn't really get "snubbed" since he had far less bonus victories against far lesser competition than Metcalf did, and Metcalf's loss was early in the season. So there's an argument for Gavin (the only undefeated wrestler that season I believe btw) but in most people's opinion Metcalf's argument was superior, and I'm saying that as someone very far from an Iowa fan. Oliver's pin total was barely higher than the other major contenders and he faced (and thus defeated) less ranked opponents with less bonus point victories. He may have had as strong an argument as others, but it wasn't as clear-cut controversial as you're presenting it. Varner would have been my pick over Ness, because he was so clearly the better overall wrestler, but he did have less pins and the closeness of an NCAA finals match doesn't factor into the criteria, so Ness had a strong argument too.

 

The problem is that the criteria does not clearly delineate what weight should be awarded to each accomplishment (other than the 1-7 order). Though many believe that the best wrestler should simply win the award without all the unnecessary complications, I'm mixed because it would make the award a foregone conclusion many years (also susceptible to plenty of bias). Consider the fact that this is not a problem unique to wrestling, the MVP in baseball has ambiguous criteria but according to many that makes the debate far more interesting than simply awarding it to the best player (or in this case wrestler) every single year.

-------

 

Just to flesh out the point about competition. The year Metcalf won, the following were his competition at 149#:

 

Bubba Jenkens

Jordan Burroughs

Josh Churella

Darrian Caldwell

JP O'Connor

Dustin Schlatter

Lance Palmer

 

This was undoubtedly the strongest weight class that year. 5 of those guys were at some point, national champs themselves. Each multiple AA awards. Metcalf scored more pins and bonus than Gavin despite having a far tougher weight class. While a case could be made for the undefeated Gavin, the Hodge committee considered the dominance and competition important enough to give it to Metcalf.

 

Strongest weight class of all time imo, and its not even close. Beyond all the super studs who made up the top 8, here is a list of guys who didn't place that year and went on to AA:

 

Don Fisch

Jake Patacsil

Bryce Saddoris

Adam Hall

 

All 8 guys who AA'ed that year made at least one finals appearance, and I believe Adam Hall did as well. As previously mentioned, Ryan Lang, a returning finalist, failed to place. So 10 total finalists in one weight class

 

wow!

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Mokoma    324

Mokoma
Posted

This is kind of right, but to less of an extent than you're asserting. Gavin didn't really get "snubbed" since he had far less bonus victories against far lesser competition than Metcalf did, and Metcalf's loss was early in the season. So there's an argument for Gavin (the only undefeated wrestler that season I believe btw) but in most people's opinion Metcalf's argument was superior, and I'm saying that as someone very far from an Iowa fan. Oliver's pin total was barely higher than the other major contenders and he faced (and thus defeated) less ranked opponents with less bonus point victories. He may have had as strong an argument as others, but it wasn't as clear-cut controversial as you're presenting it. Varner would have been my pick over Ness, because he was so clearly the better overall wrestler, but he did have less pins and the closeness of an NCAA finals match doesn't factor into the criteria, so Ness had a strong argument too.

 

The problem is that the criteria does not clearly delineate what weight should be awarded to each accomplishment (other than the 1-7 order). Though many believe that the best wrestler should simply win the award without all the unnecessary complications, I'm mixed because it would make the award a foregone conclusion many years (also susceptible to plenty of bias). Consider the fact that this is not a problem unique to wrestling, the MVP in baseball has ambiguous criteria but according to many that makes the debate far more interesting than simply awarding it to the best player (or in this case wrestler) every single year.

-------

 

Just to flesh out the point about competition. The year Metcalf won, the following were his competition at 149#:

 

Bubba Jenkens

Jordan Burroughs

Josh Churella

Darrian Caldwell

JP O'Connor

Dustin Schlatter

Lance Palmer

 

This was undoubtedly the strongest weight class that year. 5 of those guys were at some point, national champs themselves. Each multiple AA awards. Metcalf scored more pins and bonus than Gavin despite having a far tougher weight class. While a case could be made for the undefeated Gavin, the Hodge committee considered the dominance and competition important enough to give it to Metcalf.

 

Strongest weight class of all time imo, and its not even close. Beyond all the super studs who made up the top 8, here is a list of guys who didn't place that year and went on to AA:

 

Don Fisch

Jake Patacsil

Bryce Saddoris

Adam Hall

 

All 8 guys who AA'ed that year made at least one finals appearance, and I believe Adam Hall did as well. As previously mentioned, Ryan Lang, a returning finalist, failed to place. So 10 total finalists in one weight class

 

wow!

 

Lost,

 

This is a joke right? I know this weight was decent, but it was not even close to the strongest of all time.

 

Sure, these wrestlers ended up pretty successful on the college level, but at the time of this bracket, this group was largely unproven.

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smokeyjoe    0

smokeyjoe
Posted

Trirtsis vs Steiber/Ramos would be a great match!

I just watched the video of Trirtsis vs Ramos in freestyle when Jason was in high school and Romas was a frosh. Jason gave Tony all he could handle. I think a Steiber vs Trirtsis match would be a nail biter and they both will likely see each other at 45lbs this summer in freestyle.

 

 

 

uote="silver-medal"]

Taylor Walsh (IU) 20-0 17 falls

 

Have you looked at who he's wrestled? One guy--Chino--is ranked. Walsh is tough but for the most part he's wrestled a JV schedule.

 

So if Walsh ends up with 30+ pins this year you don't think he will be in the discussion?

Last 6 years D1 pin leaders. These guys didn't wrestle tough schedules either and Walsh is blowing them away.

 

08-Caldwell 20

09-Josh Patterson 22

10-Hudson Taylor 24

11-Kokesh 19

12- Pena 20

13-Hunter Weber 20

 

 

He's wrestled no one. And I mean...no one. His three non pins were all victories by decision over guys like Chino and Languis. Neither one of those guys is a serious AA contender. Walsh is good at pinning inferior competition. Credit to him for being a pinner. Let's see him AA first. Then we'll consider if he has a shot at the Hodge.

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skikayaker    93

skikayaker
Posted

LogieB and DT are my two front runners and if they finish undefeated with domination in every match it will come down to criteria. DT already won a Hodge and this may factor into the equation.

 

The other factor is who has the tougher weight class???

 

I'd give the nod to 141 being the tougher weight class with Mitchell, Port, Carter (out with an injury), Nevinger and Dardanes, although you have Caldwell and Sulzer at 165.

 

I think it depends on how Taylor or Stieber dominate their respective top 10 competition throughout the season. This will most likely determine the outcome.

 

No doubt that both seem to be outstanding student athletes. Taylor dominates the popular vote with 30K twitter fans and a higher demand for autographs.

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LoStNuMbEr    320

LoStNuMbEr
Posted

Lost,

 

This is a joke right? I know this weight was decent, but it was not even close to the strongest of all time.

 

Sure, these wrestlers ended up pretty successful on the college level, but at the time of this bracket, this group was largely unproven.

 

"Unproven???" You're trolling right? Schlatter was a returning champ, Churella was a returning finalist as was Ryan Lang. None of those guys even made the top 3, because some of the "unproven" guys you are talking about (Metcalf, Burroughs, Jenkins) placed ahead of them. 3 "unproven" guys who combined had 7 finals appearances in their career.

 

You might be able to find a weight class or two throughout the years that had a more "proven" top 3, but you certainly wont find one that was as deep top to bottom.

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HurricaneWrestling    1,123

HurricaneWrestling
Posted

Lost,

 

This is a joke right? I know this weight was decent, but it was not even close to the strongest of all time.

 

Sure, these wrestlers ended up pretty successful on the college level, but at the time of this bracket, this group was largely unproven.

 

"Unproven???" You're trolling right? Schlatter was a returning champ, Churella was a returning finalist as was Ryan Lang. None of those guys even made the top 3, because some of the "unproven" guys you are talking about (Metcalf, Burroughs, Jenkins) placed ahead of them. 3 "unproven" guys who combined had 7 finals appearances in their career.

 

You might be able to find a weight class or two throughout the years that had a more "proven" top 3, but you certainly wont find one that was as deep top to bottom.

Actually, I think Mokoma makes a fair point. Note that Rossel3 indicated that, of the following talented guys that year, 5 were at some point national champs themselves:

 

Jordan Burroughs

Josh Churella

Darrian Caldwell

JP O'Connor

Dustin Schlatter

Lance Palmer

 

What he failed to mention is that 4 of those 5 championships all came later in their careers after those wrestlers moved up in weight (except Caldwell, who won his title over Metcalf). And Schlatter wasn't a returning champ, but a former champ who finished 3rd the previous year. IIRC, he was already injured and finished lower each subsequent year.

 

Arguably then, none of the 5 champs mentioned were at their peaks in 2008. In fact, entering the tournament, the majority of them had not yet achieved All-American status. Therefore, Mokoma's point that "at the time of this bracket, this group was largely unproven" has merit.

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HurricaneWrestling    1,123

HurricaneWrestling
Posted

Lost,

 

This is a joke right? I know this weight was decent, but it was not even close to the strongest of all time.

 

Sure, these wrestlers ended up pretty successful on the college level, but at the time of this bracket, this group was largely unproven.

 

"Unproven???" You're trolling right? Schlatter was a returning champ, Churella was a returning finalist as was Ryan Lang. None of those guys even made the top 3, because some of the "unproven" guys you are talking about (Metcalf, Burroughs, Jenkins) placed ahead of them. 3 "unproven" guys who combined had 7 finals appearances in their career.

 

You might be able to find a weight class or two throughout the years that had a more "proven" top 3, but you certainly wont find one that was as deep top to bottom.

Actually, I think Mokoma makes a fair point. Note that Rossel3 indicated that, of the following talented guys that year, 5 were at some point national champs themselves:

 

Jordan Burroughs

Josh Churella

Darrian Caldwell

JP O'Connor

Dustin Schlatter

Lance Palmer

 

What he failed to mention is that 4 of those 5 championships all came later in their careers after those wrestlers moved up in weight (except Caldwell, who won his title over Metcalf). And Schlatter wasn't a returning champ, but a former champ who finished 3rd the previous year. IIRC, he was already injured and finished lower each subsequent year.

 

Arguably then, none of the 5 champs mentioned were at their peaks in 2008. In fact, entering the tournament, the majority of them had not yet achieved All-American status. Therefore, Mokoma's point that "at the time of this bracket, this group was largely unproven" has merit.

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RoarLions    0

RoarLions
Posted

The problem for many of the guys is they wrestle close matches. The domination criteria will likely separate Taylor from all other undefeated guys...if he goes undefeated. A wrestler can only wrestle the guy that's in front of him. Should know more at the Scuffle...DT vs Caldwell likely in the finals.

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