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MSU158

MSU=Most Severely Unacceptable

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Since I have been told on here that I focus on PSU too much(since they are actually relevant on this site and the debates are enjoyable) would ANYONE like to discuss the debacle that was today's, and mostly the past 10 years, performance(s)? ANYONE? ANYONE?

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Since I have been told on here that I focus on PSU too much(since they are actually relevant on this site and the debates are enjoyable) would ANYONE like to discuss the debacle that was today's, and mostly the past 10 years, performance(s)? ANYONE? ANYONE?

 

I'll discuss it. I can see the score but I don't know enough about the Sparty program right now to speak intelligently about it. What do YOU believe the problem to be?

 

The only comment I would have right this moment is that when you underachieve for a long time there is obviously a trend in place. So is it about coaching? (And fwiw, to me recruiting IS coaching). So what say you?

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I'm assuming you're talking about the Wisconsin dual.

 

Wisconsin 30 - MSU 7

 

125 Bradley Taylor (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Hermilo Esquivel (Michigan State) 18-6. 0 4.00

133 Tyler Graff (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Garth Yenter (Michigan State) 23-9. 0 4.00

141 Jesse Thielke (Wisconsin) won by tech fall over Brian Gibbs (Michigan State) 0:00 17-2. 0 5.00

149 Timothy Ruschell (Wisconsin) won by decision over Matt Pasqualini (Michigan State) 9-3. 0 3.00

157 Isaac Jordan (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Roger Wildmo (Michigan State) 8-0. 0 4.00

165 Frank Cousins Jr. (Wisconsin) won in sudden victory 1 over Bobby Nash (Michigan State) 5-3. 0 3.00

174 Scott Liegel (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Kevin Nash (Michigan State) 10-0. 0 4.00

184 John Rizqallah (Michigan State) won by decision over Jackson Hein (Wisconsin) 6-4. 3.00 0

197 Timothy McCall (Wisconsin) won by decision over Nick McDiarmid (Michigan State) 3-2. 0 3.00

285 Mike McClure (Michigan State) won by major decision over Connor Medbery (Wisconsin) 12-4.

 

I didn't see the dual, but from the scores, it's pretty much what I would have expected. For all the flack Barry Davis has received over the past few years, he actually fields a pretty well balanced team with a few studs. If Watts had been in the lineup for MSU, he might have added another victory. Looks like Widmo will need a little more time to get to the level the team needs of him.

 

As for long term solutions, I think the consensus for the last 10 years is the same - a regime change is needed.

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Since I have been told on here that I focus on PSU too much(since they are actually relevant on this site and the debates are enjoyable) would ANYONE like to discuss the debacle that was today's, and mostly the past 10 years, performance(s)? ANYONE? ANYONE?

 

I'll discuss it. I can see the score but I don't know enough about the Sparty program right now to speak intelligently about it. What do YOU believe the problem to be?

 

The only comment I would have right this moment is that when you underachieve for a long time there is obviously a trend in place. So is it about coaching? (And fwiw, to me recruiting IS coaching). So what say you?

 

It is ABSOLUTELY about coaching. Specifically the HEAD COACH! He has had a couple good Assistant Coaches in Williams(no longer there) and Chandler. However, they were, and Chandler still is, SEVERELY limited in what they can do while under Minkel. This is Glaringly apparent by the fact Williams has had great ties with some of the best Michigan prospects through his youth program and they TRULY did not even consider attending MSU. The worst part is Michigan has had the BEST crop of talent over the last few years that I can EVER remember and MSU hasn't really sniffed ANY of it. Other than can't miss recruits like the Simmons(who were locked into MSU no matter what) and Gomez, MSU has not produced an AA for quite a while and it has been a LONG time since I have witnessed someone make substantial improvement under Minkel.

 

In the end the problem is the Administration has shown no interest in the perfomance of the wrestling program and has put NO heat on Minkel to produce. He has been allowed to run the program how he wants and I am NOT sure they can recover EVEN IF he is replaced. As much as I would love a Brian Smith hire I am not sure he would want to go to MSU and that says A LOT as coaching in the B1G, especially when it is your Alma Mater, is about the best job a D1 coach could ask for!

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MSU, I thought it better that you say it rather than a Penn State fan saying it. I will just add that even the official MSU website sort of tells you all you need to know. Hit the link for MInkel and they start out by telling you what he did in 1995. No joke. Here's the problem, the kids coming in to college this next year were born in 1995, so they have no idea about that long ago past success.

 

Your admin let's him keep going. Why?

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I'm assuming you're talking about the Wisconsin dual.

 

Wisconsin 30 - MSU 7

 

125 Bradley Taylor (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Hermilo Esquivel (Michigan State) 18-6. 0 4.00

133 Tyler Graff (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Garth Yenter (Michigan State) 23-9. 0 4.00

141 Jesse Thielke (Wisconsin) won by tech fall over Brian Gibbs (Michigan State) 0:00 17-2. 0 5.00

149 Timothy Ruschell (Wisconsin) won by decision over Matt Pasqualini (Michigan State) 9-3. 0 3.00

157 Isaac Jordan (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Roger Wildmo (Michigan State) 8-0. 0 4.00

165 Frank Cousins Jr. (Wisconsin) won in sudden victory 1 over Bobby Nash (Michigan State) 5-3. 0 3.00

174 Scott Liegel (Wisconsin) won by major decision over Kevin Nash (Michigan State) 10-0. 0 4.00

184 John Rizqallah (Michigan State) won by decision over Jackson Hein (Wisconsin) 6-4. 3.00 0

197 Timothy McCall (Wisconsin) won by decision over Nick McDiarmid (Michigan State) 3-2. 0 3.00

285 Mike McClure (Michigan State) won by major decision over Connor Medbery (Wisconsin) 12-4.

 

I didn't see the dual, but from the scores, it's pretty much what I would have expected. For all the flack Barry Davis has received over the past few years, he actually fields a pretty well balanced team with a few studs. If Watts had been in the lineup for MSU, he might have added another victory. Looks like Widmo will need a little more time to get to the level the team needs of him.

 

As for long term solutions, I think the consensus for the last 10 years is the same - a regime change is needed.

 

Wildmo was SO good coming out of High School it is killing me to see he seems to have regressed since his true freshman year. Other than the Rizqallah brothers who were hard working, funky solid wrestlers in High School I haven't felt any MSU wrestlers have made significant improvement in quite a while. Other than Rizqallah I only see 2 other possible NCAA qualifiers in Watts who has raw talent that pops up from time to time and McClure who is, simply put, a MAN-CHILD. In the end McClure is the only surefire qualifier and I hate to cheer against MSU but I would like to see that happen just to see if it can put any pressure on Minkel. If having only 1 qualifier, especially if he doesn't AA doesn't change anything I know for sure Minkel isn't going anywhere until he decides to.................

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MSU, I thought it better that you say it rather than a Penn State fan saying it. I will just add that even the official MSU website sort of tells you all you need to know. Hit the link for MInkel and they start out by telling you what he did in 1995. No joke. Here's the problem, the kids coming in to college this next year were born in 1995, so they have no idea about that long ago past success.

 

Your admin let's him keep going. Why?

 

From what I have been told he markets himself very well and gets along very well with the Admins. As long as he keeps his kids graduating and avoiding scandals they really don't care about his team's results. Sad but true.

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How many scholarships at MSU? 9.9 or 5.5 ?

 

Full 9.9, I believe that is true of all the B1G teams?

 

You have a right to be disappointed in your alma mater.

Big 1G Schools should always be competitive with no excuses.

 

As a matter of fact, any school with 9.9 should:

-Have at least 2 studs/AA contenders regardless

-Field a full lineup for any/all duals and single entry tournaments

-Run a local support structure for area kids (camps, clubs, clinics, etc)

 

If a program isn't doing their job in this regard then the coach needs to improve/be seriously looked at by the administration.

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They have had a few very successful guys over the past ten years, so it's not all bad. Watts has a decent right. You can ask dsj about that. I think they are not rock bottom.

 

I listed the two Simmons brothers and Gomez already. Other than these three they have had EXACTLY ZERO AA's in the past 10 years. You can try to say Maynard was in the past 10 years since he AA'd in 2003 but that is actually MORE than 10 years ago. The simple point is being a B1G school with the full scholarship allotment, their performance over the last 10 years has been abysmal. You say they are not rock bottom but over the last 10 years their average B1G finishes rank them DEAD LAST!

 

As a fan/alum there is only so much you can take. I remember saying they would fall off the map once the Simmons bros graduated and that is exactly what they have done. Recruiting has been poor and development has been even more so. I want to cheer for them and be positive, but when you know their is a major issue with something IGNORING it doesn't help. Ignoring Minkel is like having Pneumonia, not taking medicine, acting like you are fine and waiting for it to get better on it's own! The current product is UNACCEPTABLE!

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Couldn't agree more. Yesterday was pathetic. Wisconsin came in to their place and took it to them. Wisconsin was more aggressive, physical and offensive. The difference between the energy of the coaching staffs is very apparent. Do they ever work on hand fighting in practice? The only light weight that seems to have a clue about hand fighting is Yenter. But I heard he spent last summer with Dennis Hall and probably got it from him. Even his hand fighting skills are no where close to where they need to be. Graff flat out wore him out with his heavy hands and constant pressure. Made him look silly in the 3rd. Rizquallah does a decent job with heavy hands (but stalled his butt off). McClure looked the best I have seen him.

 

Something has to change. Don't want to end up a Michigan fan :lol: :lol:

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how is Roger Chandler as an assistant coach? He was a stud wrestler back in the day.

 

There was a time where he was a rising star. However, after so many years under Minkel I think he has stagnated. I believe both he and Williams had great potential but will inevitably be forever damaged goods. A wholesale change is necessary and the new coach would ABSOLUTELY need to push for NEW facilities for the program to even possibly move in the right direction.

 

MSU is one of the VERY few schools that has the history to promote themselves as a winning program. The big problem is that history is starting to be ANCIENT history. If something isn't done soon they will be forever lost.

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All I can say is Indiana University coaches are licking their chops, for the only opportunity to win a BIG match this year! And it will be a squeaker! Goldman really likes Minkel.

IU looks to be slightly up this year, compared to the past several years, but yes Golsman definitely can't complain about MSUs status in the Big 10.

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Still fuming about last night, so I called a friend up that way for a little more insight into what has been going on. He is close to the program. This is all hearsay of course, so take it for what it's worth. Coaches have been able to recruit a few kids from California and apparently do not want to damage this pipeline. Being told that the only kids getting coaching in the room are the Cali boys. Team is not happy and parents are furious. Gave me a long list of wrestlers who want to transfer. I will not mention any names. Hand fighting is almost non-existent. Have a few kids working on their own to improve here. No where near enough individual work being done with the kids before upcoming matches. Watching video on their own and trying to figure it out. The one exception to this has been Sam Wedland. Heard he is very passionate and works well with the big guys. He has also been working individually with some of the lighter guys when he has time. Bottom technique consists of the coaches telling the kids it's all attitude and working on almost no technique. There is no leader on the team. Minkle tells them everyday that they are not as good or talented as the other kids in the Big 10, but with hard work they can achieve. Great confidence builder for all of them. Had a kid get physical with Minkle this last summer and knocked his tooth out. Minkle was talking about kicking him off the team. I would think that's the kind of attitude you would want in a Big 10 wrestling room. And a bunch of other stuff that he told me, but you get the point.

 

What can we as MSU fans and alums do to get the athletic departments attention?

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Still fuming about last night, so I called a friend up that way for a little more insight into what has been going on. He is close to the program. This is all hearsay of course, so take it for what it's worth. Coaches have been able to recruit a few kids from California and apparently do not want to damage this pipeline. Being told that the only kids getting coaching in the room are the Cali boys. Team is not happy and parents are furious. Gave me a long list of wrestlers who want to transfer. I will not mention any names. Hand fighting is almost non-existent. Have a few kids working on their own to improve here. No where near enough individual work being done with the kids before upcoming matches. Watching video on their own and trying to figure it out. The one exception to this has been Sam Wedland. Heard he is very passionate and works well with the big guys. He has also been working individually with some of the lighter guys when he has time. Bottom technique consists of the coaches telling the kids it's all attitude and working on almost no technique. There is no leader on the team. Minkle tells them everyday that they are not as good or talented as the other kids in the Big 10, but with hard work they can achieve. Great confidence builder for all of them. Had a kid get physical with Minkle this last summer and knocked his tooth out. Minkle was talking about kicking him off the team. I would think that's the kind of attitude you would want in a Big 10 wrestling room. And a bunch of other stuff that he told me, but you get the point.

 

What can we as MSU fans and alums do to get the athletic departments attention?

 

Dale Anderson(former 2x National Champion for MSU) was on this message board a lot the past couple of years. He posted that he had tried quite a bit and everything he did fell on deaf ears. If a 2x Individual Champ and a member of the NCAA championship team can't make any headway I don't see what any one individual could do. It would take a MASSIVE movement where all the parents, boosters, alum, etc. bombarded the Athletic Department with phone calls, emails, snail mail, etc. to the point where the AD couldn't ignore it. I am not sure we are a tight enough unit to organize such an action.

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Michigan State will have 3 NCAA qualifiers this year. Ryan Watts, John Rizqallah, and Mike McClure. Still I agree with you though that MSU has been bottom of the barrel for too long and changes need to be made. Minkle has his time and that time is over. It's time for some changes at MSU.

 

What's sad to me is that many MSU wrestlers just never develop at all. I realize that Brenan Lyon was a 103 pounder coming in to the program, but he's not any bigger or stronger than what he was when he first came into the program. I can't say he hasn't improved at all since his freshman year, but he hasn't by much.

 

McClure and Rizqallah could both be AA's this year but it isn't likely.

 

As for Indiana, I've been riding Goldman's butt for the last few years...with good reason. Thus far this season, Taylor Walsh has been doing pretty good. He's won every tournament thus far this season that he has entered.

 

I expect 4 qualifiers for the Hoosiers this year in Taylor Walsh, Ryan LeBlanc, Luke Sheridan and Adam Chalfant. There is no reason why Chalfant shouldn't be an AA this year and Walsh at the worst R12.

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The saddest thing about this travesty of a situation at MSU is that at some point, someone is going to care that the team underperformed so severely relative to its potential for so long, and when the athletic department looks for a scapegoat to cut its budget or make room for whichever sport happens to have the alumni support and momentum, MSU wrestling will be exposed. No amount of calls, visits, emails, or whatever else will save the program then.

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Excellent thread MSU158!

 

I started wondering about Minkel when Nik Fekete was trying to leave. Then Joe Williams didn't seem to get any better but there were no changes. The SImmons brothers and Gomez took some of the pressure off, but it seems like it's back to square one.

 

It's also interesting that (apparently) the CA wrestlers, Esquivel (who was not a State champ but beat Nahshon Garrett in HS and never lost to him), Gasca (not a State champ but multi-time placer) and Pagdilao (5th and 1st at State - the year he was 5th Gasca was 3rd at the same weight) are getting the coaching but others aren't (is this a reason - along with Nick Simmons - that Marciki committed to IU and not MSU?

 

There are a LOT of Michigan wrestlers on that roster, too. If the wrestlers aren't getting the stewardship they deserve and need, then the parents, who have likely known each other for quite some time through the sport when their kids were coming up in MYWAY or USAW and into high school, need to have their voices heard. They should be able to come together for that and get in front of the Athletic Department.

 

As for Indiana, Simmons has brought a lot of energy back to that room. It seemed like there was quite a transition when Dubuque left and SImmons came over from Oregon State. But watching IU wrestle, they're picking up the intensity in matches and have re-made an appearance in the Top 25. A lot of that may be credited to SImmons, but it also looks like Coach Goldman has been re-invigorated. I know he's back on the mats at times, too - leading from the front!

 

Even with Joe LeBlanc leaving IU for Brown, these are programs heading in oppostie directions.

 

Funny that Chandler was an IU guy for Goodman and SImmons was MSU under Minkel.

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