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MSU158

MSU=Most Severely Unacceptable

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I went back to Waterloo to see my old beloved high school coach -- and we went to see Michigan State wrestle at the UNI tournament.

 

I have watched the (MSU) kids wrestle, and almost without exception (e.g the heavyweight), they are just plain embarrassing -- even to watch. In the previous meet against Wisconsin, I didn't see one shot for takedown -- or anything that resembled an escape or reversal (maybe a couple of junior high attempted switches). Did you?

 

So I caught Minkel for a moment during the tournament to beg him once again to retire. (I think his contract is up this year -- or next.)

 

Instead of responding to my concerns (about his destroying the program), he kept making excuses about the wrestling room.

 

I basically tried to tell him that if MSU had the best wrestling room in the country, he would still be last in the Big 10 or the Big 14 (next year) -- and 51st in the country. He's just way over the hill -- or something.?

 

He tried to ignore me-- but I do believe I was getting through -- as I got somewhat more confrontational as we talked -- and I realized he was going to blame his poor performance on the wrestling room forever.

 

I think that if more people at the meets encouraged him to retire -- and maybe sent notes to the ADs -- Minkel would feel a little more pressure to move on.

 

Does anybody do that?

 

Again, I don't feel any personal animosity toward Minkel. I just think he's destroyed a once proud program -- one I was personally associated with -- and helped to build.

 

Best -

 

DA

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He tried to ignore me-- but I do believe I was getting through -- as I got somewhat more confrontational as we talked -- and I realized he was going to blame his poor performance on the wrestling forever.

 

I think that if more people at the meets encouraged him to retire -- and maybe sent notes to the ADs -- Minkel would feel a little more pressure to move on.

 

DA

 

All of the MSU fans and former wrestlers should start a facebook (or equivalent forum to become one voice) page, get some organization, and send all of your concerns to the Athletic Dept. Then keep sending your concerns until they make the switch. You deserve better, but until you organize you won't be heard.

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I still feel strongly that enough fans actually talked to Minkel personally, he would have to feel the pressure -- and retire at some point.

 

DA

Maybe. Maybe not. There are coaches out there that think fans don't know anything, so they never listen to them beyond lip service. I think you are better off trying to convince his boss, the AD. That friendliness he has with the AD will evaporate if/when the fanbase organizes against him. Jmo

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I still feel strongly that enough fans actually talked to Minkel personally, he would have to feel the pressure -- and retire at some point.

 

DA

Maybe. Maybe not. There are coaches out there that think fans don't know anything, so they never listen to them beyond lip service. I think you are better off trying to convince his boss, the AD. That friendliness he has with the AD will evaporate if/when the fanbase organizes against him. Jmo

 

I had a stretch where I sent an email after every loss to everyone in the Athletic Department as well as Minkel. I would mark the email with an accept receipt confirmation request. After my first couple emails I NEVER received a confirmation. I have a feeling my email account was blocked. They simply DO NOT want to listen.

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I went back to Waterloo to see my old beloved high school coach -- and we went to see Michigan State wrestle at the UNI tournament.

 

I have watched the (MSU) kids wrestle, and almost without exception (e.g the heavyweight), they are just plain embarrassing -- even to watch. In the previous meet against Wisconsin, I didn't see one shot for takedown -- or anything that resembled an escape or reversal (maybe a couple of junior high attempted switches). Did you?

 

So I caught Minkel for a moment during the tournament to beg him once again to retire. (I think his contract is up this year -- or next.)

 

Instead of responding to my concerns (about his destroying the program), he kept making excuses about the wrestling room.

 

I basically tried to tell him that if MSU had the best wrestling room in the country, he would still be last in the Big 10 or the Big 14 (next year) -- and 51st in the country. He's just way over the hill -- or something.?

 

He tried to ignore me-- but I do believe I was getting through -- as I got somewhat more confrontational as we talked -- and I realized he was going to blame his poor performance on the wrestling room forever.

 

I think that if more people at the meets encouraged him to retire -- and maybe sent notes to the ADs -- Minkel would feel a little more pressure to move on.

 

Does anybody do that?

 

Again, I don't feel any personal animosity toward Minkel. I just think he's destroyed a once proud program -- one I was personally associated with -- and helped to build.

 

Best -

 

DA

 

Minkel is a very odd bird. I use the word "bird" on purpose. However, he knows how to keep the AD off his back. He keeps his kids out of trouble and doesn't complain to THEM about anything. He SQWAKKS to us about the Wrestling Facilities(Which are 100% the worst in the B1G and possibly all of DI) but he DOES NOT complain to the AD.

 

As I have said, my attempts to make headway with the Athletic Department has basically been ignored. Maybe if you, as one of the best wrestlers MSU has had, spoke directly with the AD and told him how embarassed you and everyone you talked to are, he may LISTEN to you.

 

At the very least I would like to hear how the AD would respond to you, and that response would enlighten us to whether there even is an avenue to push for Minkel's removal.

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To any athletic director that allows a low performance level of a program over an extended period of time- shame on them.

 

And shame on those above the athletic director for allowing it, too. It's the job of all these individuals to produce healthy and competitive athletic programs. If you can't do that, we'll find somebody that can.

 

Personally, I'd be calling the athletic director into my office first. If he/she is satisfied with the continued mediocrity of one of the programs, then he/she is better placed outside the university. If he/she claims they are interested, then they better do something about it, and now.

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DA and MSU, Do either of you know what kind/type of relationship Pat Milkovich has with Coach Minkel?

 

He can't be happy with what's happening in East Lansing? Maybe someone shoud reach out to him and get him on board with the fix (change) the Spartan program efforts.

 

He retired from coaching(Rochester Adams High School) about a dozen years ago. I haven't heard or seen much from him since. If he has been involved at all it has been behind the scenes. As I have said before the friends and people I knew that stayed close to the program have drifted away and I can't get anything really going. It is a shame that so many that wrestled at a high level don't have the passion as a fan that they did as a wrestler.

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MSU, you are one guy, so they can ignore your e mails. When its 300 guys, they'll start to listen. That is why I kept saying you need to organize. As one man you are a disgruntled fan, as 300 men you are the voice of the fanbase. Organize.

 

I have tried. As I have said, those I knew and know that were a bigger part of the program have mostly drifted away and most don't care. I am proactive but I don't want to look like a kook if I go to meets and try to organize what is mainly the wrestler's families to try to push Minkel out. A lot of these parents don't want to rock the boat when their kid is on the team. The biggest problem is there isn't a strong enough fanbase to push Minkel out.............

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MSU, you are one guy, so they can ignore your e mails. When its 300 guys, they'll start to listen. That is why I kept saying you need to organize. As one man you are a disgruntled fan, as 300 men you are the voice of the fanbase. Organize.

 

I have tried. As I have said, those I knew and know that were a bigger part of the program have mostly drifted away and most don't care. I am proactive but I don't want to look like a kook if I go to meets and try to organize what is mainly the wrestler's families to try to push Minkel out. A lot of these parents don't want to rock the boat when their kid is on the team. The biggest problem is there isn't a strong enough fanbase to push Minkel out.............

 

You can't talk to parents and such. That is off limits. It has to be the older guys and behind doors. If the interest isn't there, it isn't there and you are stuck. Try calling the AD to ask him if you can take him out to lunch, but don't be shocked if he asks you to contribute financially. That is what they do.

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I think I have read before that the Simmons brothers were always going to to to MSU why is that?

 

Minkel was a state champ at the same High School as the Simmons brothers and their father wrestled at MSU. MSU is a hop, skip and a jump away from Williamston High School. The rapid decent of the program hadn't quite started when Nick committed. It quickly did thereafter.

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MSU, you are one guy, so they can ignore your e mails. When its 300 guys, they'll start to listen. That is why I kept saying you need to organize. As one man you are a disgruntled fan, as 300 men you are the voice of the fanbase. Organize.

 

I have tried. As I have said, those I knew and know that were a bigger part of the program have mostly drifted away and most don't care. I am proactive but I don't want to look like a kook if I go to meets and try to organize what is mainly the wrestler's families to try to push Minkel out. A lot of these parents don't want to rock the boat when their kid is on the team. The biggest problem is there isn't a strong enough fanbase to push Minkel out.............

 

You can't talk to parents and such. That is off limits. It has to be the older guys and behind doors. If the interest isn't there, it isn't there and you are stuck. Try calling the AD to ask him if you can take him out to lunch, but don't be shocked if he asks you to contribute financially. That is what they do.

 

That is what I am trying to get Dale to do. I think he could get an audience with Hollis much easier and the odds he would make an impact are significantly better. The results of such an attempt by Dale would let me know if there is anything further I can do.

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Let me try to explain briefly -- it's a little bit more complicated than I at first thought it was.

 

1. The Michigan State administration (President / AD) does not care at all about wrestling. When I was in school the AD and President came to most of our meets. I knew them personally -- they cared about all the athletes at MSU.

 

2. The administration cares only about football and basketball (and hockey). Even the most wrestling obsessed probably are aware that MSU is in the top 5 in both football and basketball right now. So the administration is not at all concerned about negative fallout by virtue of refusal to terminate an incompetent wrestling coach.

 

3. I have talked personally to the administration. I have even had many who donate feverishly -- and for great amount$ -- to the school to talk to administration -- but to no avail.

 

4. I sincerely believe that if the entire state of Michigan wrote the administration to fire Minkel, the administration would not do that.

 

5. Minkel is the weak link here -- if people at his meets would: all wear sacks over their heads -- with slits for eyes or would all approach him and tell him that it long past time to retire, I think he would give up. He is not that strong. Anybody with any strength of character would have quit long ago -- for the good of the program -- not because the AD shoved him out the back door. Minkel must get so embarrassed that he has to quit.

 

That is our only recourse IMO.

 

Best -

 

DA

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Let me try to explain briefly -- it's a little bit more complicated than I at first thought it was.

 

1. The Michigan State administration (President / AD) does not care at all about wrestling. When I was in school the AD and President came to most of our meets. I knew them personally -- they cared about all the athletes at MSU.

 

2. The administration cares only about football and basketball (and hockey). Even the most wrestling obsessed probably are aware that MSU is in the top 5 in both football and basketball right now. So the administration is not at all concerned about negative fallout by virtue of refusal to terminate an incompetent wrestling coach.

 

3. I have talked personally to the administration. I have even had many who donate feverishly -- and for great amount$ -- to the school to talk to administration -- but to no avail.

 

4. I sincerely believe that if the entire state of Michigan wrote the administration to fire Minkel, the administration would not do that.

 

5. Minkel is the weak link here -- if people at his meets would: all wear sacks over their heads -- with slits for eyes or would all approach him and tell him that it long past time to retire, I think he would give up. He is not that strong. Anybody with any strength of character would have quit long ago -- for the good of the program -- not because the AD shoved him out the back door. Minkel must get so embarrassed that he has to quit.

 

That is our only recourse IMO.

 

Best -

 

DA

 

I figured as much. With the passion you have shown over the last few years I knew better than to think you hadn't already approached the Admins. I was simply hoping that a window of opportunity was still available.

 

Thank You for the explanation and Thank You for all your efforts to keep MSU wrestling alive.

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DAA, you are describing what New Orleans Saints fans did. Joe Six Pack and his drinking buddies. Would college fans really do something like this?

 

No. And the reason why is there is NO WAY to do this without embarrassing the wrestlers as well. Now if everyone wore Run Minkel Out Of Town T Shirts you may get somewhere, but again, I doubt ANY family members, who make up most of the crowd, would do this and risk difficulties for their family member wrestling for MSU.

 

It would take getting 300 or so former wrestlers and/or alumni that normally don't attend to START attending and make their opinion known. The problem is I can't get the 20 or so I know to care enough to do something like that.

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"Desperate times call for desperate measures."

 

Nothing else seems to work. I / and others long ago took the administrators to lunch, promised them lots of $, got groups to e-mail them and call them. We have tried all the usual strategies to get their attention. What more could be done? You have to understand -- they just don't care.

 

I don't know if you remember the publicity the "aints" got when they did covered their heads with sacks. Virtually everybody in the country knows about it. That should tell you something about its affectiveness.

 

Someone on the '67 team brought it up to do at the Big Tens.

 

As far as embarrassing the wrestlers -- they are already embarrassed. But IMO -- everyone would know -- or should know -- that the sacks are on as embarrassment of the coach.

 

I just don't know if I'd be embarrassed. I can see why one would need a six-pack to pull it off. That's not exactly my style (any more) -- more what young impulsive wrestling fans might do.

 

I would love to see some Spartan fans do it frankly.

 

I think if about 10-15 students wore sacks, it would make the papers -- and when they were interviewed would embarrass Minkel enough to cause him not want to coach any more meets.

 

DA

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I've been thru something not quite this bad at OU. Wayne Wells lead the behind the scene effort to get Jack Spates moved out as head coach. He had letters from over 40 former OU wrestlers and coaches asking for a change. The AD did care, but his hands were tied by the OU President. I was very vocal on this forum and wrote a letter to the editor of the Norman Transcript that received considerable attention from fans.

 

If you want a change made sometimes you have to make people angry. I have a very thick skin, i had a goal to accomplish. It took 3 years of working at it to make it happen. Now OU is a competitive program again. One other thing is to have one or more major donors to the athletic department tell the AD not one more dollar will be donated until the coach is gone. I think that had a major impact at OU.

 

MSU should have made a change many years ago. If you don't get Minkel out soon you may not have a program because no one will care.

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MSU, you are one guy, so they can ignore your e mails. When its 300 guys, they'll start to listen. That is why I kept saying you need to organize. As one man you are a disgruntled fan, as 300 men you are the voice of the fanbase. Organize.

 

If there are 300 of them, and, because it is Michigan State, they are Spartans, then what you will have is a glorious battle against a whole lot of Persians.

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MSU, you are one guy, so they can ignore your e mails. When its 300 guys, they'll start to listen. That is why I kept saying you need to organize. As one man you are a disgruntled fan, as 300 men you are the voice of the fanbase. Organize.

 

If there are 300 of them, and, because it is Michigan State, they are Spartans, then what you will have is a glorious battle against a whole lot of Persians.

 

You are very observant and I am thoroughly impressed that you caught that subtle reference.

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