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tommygun

Could any 174 beat Taylor

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If they dropped down? I was on the Gopher board and they were discussing the thought of Storley and Pfarr dropping down now that Steinhaus was back. It got me thinking that I would love to see Storley wrestle Taylor. 174 is so strong. I guess Howe could beat him. Any others?

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I'm sorry but I do not subscribe to the apparent conventional wisdom on these boards that 174 is so stacked. It's certainly a very deep weight class after Howe, but last year this was considered one of the very weakest weights and that the best 165's and 184's were easily superior. This year, it's certainly tougher with every guy a year more experienced and the addition of a stud in Howe. Still, I think Taylor would wreck everyone with the exception of Howe factoring out any significant size difference, Perry included.

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Didn't Ruth handle Storley pretty easily?

 

I gotta think Taylor would win against Storley. I would also favor DT over Perry. Howe would stand the best chance, but even there, if betting, I'd go with Taylor.

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Taylor majored and pinned (in 29 seconds) Kokesh who split overtime matches last year with Storley. Sorry but he's not on the same level as the other 174's (except for Howe). I agree that it would be great if he bumped up to compete against one of them, but I doubt that happens, especially considering PSU has a top 3 ranked 174 and a #1 ranked 184 (preventing Brown from just bumping up for a given dual).

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I think Perry could beat Taylor in a high stakes matchup, ie NCAAS. Of course Howe could beat him too imo. I also believe Taylor's capable of beating either of those two.

 

Perry is underrated imo. If anyone is going to beat Howe this year, it will be Perry.

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Sorry, just don't feel generous enough to give the 1 outa 3xer a virtual dual title over everyone at 165 and 174. If Ruth wasn't at 184 many would give him that, right?

------

 

If Ruth was out, that would mean Lofthouse is #1. Would you pick Lofthouse to beat Taylor?

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I could see Taylor making the final at 174 but losing to whoever. I think he tightens up in championship matches.

He lost his freshman year in the finals, won by tech fall (receiving OW and Hodge), then lost by one point to a 4x NCAA champ who many on this board consider the 2nd greatest college wrestler ever. And in that match he scored the first takedown, it wasn't a 3-2 Howe win. What's another championship match that he tightened up in? Tightening up was not his problem against Tsargush for example. He was competitive in the first period, and Tsargush took advantage of a couple small mistakes in the second (plus some questionable scoring calls, though he loses the match regardless).

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I would love to see Taylor move up ala Dake. I understand why he doesn't ....but it would be a season to remember...and it would put to rest the whole Taylor winning amongst a weaker field vibe that has resonated during his career.

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I would love to see Taylor move up ala Dake. I understand why he doesn't ....but it would be a season to remember...and it would put to rest the whole Taylor winning amongst a weaker field vibe that has resonated during his career.

 

This assumes that Taylor would win the weight. I want to see Taylor/Howe 3.

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Sorry, just don't feel generous enough to give the 1 outa 3xer a virtual dual title over everyone at 165 and 174. If Ruth wasn't at 184 many would give him that, right?

 

I honestly thought you were kidding at first, and I still assume you're only trying to spur on some interesting theoretical discussion. If that's the case, we're ignoring the fact that PSU has Brown at 174 right?

 

In that case, if it didn't hurt PSU for Taylor to move up a weight, I'd have him as a slight favorite over the winner of Howe/Perry with a better chance of losing to Howe. I've never seen Perry wrestles at Taylor's pace against elite competition and think the refs would get involved and force the action. We've seen Howe and Taylor wrestle, it's close.

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People were saying free favored Howe last summer because "Howe is such a bull". "He'd push Taylor all the mat and wear him down." Result = Taylor Tech Fall. Now I see someone favoring Howe in folk. I completely disagree with this assertion. I just don't see the merit in all this Howe jockstrap swinging.

 

I say Howe doesn't win NCAA this year. He is not good enough to win matches against the best guys by keeping it close all the time. He is not the technician that Dake is/was.

 

I think the Taylor - Howe match in folk would look a lot like Taylor vs. Caldwell. Taylor 10-0.

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People were saying free favored Howe last summer because "Howe is such a bull". "He'd push Taylor all the mat and wear him down." Result = Taylor Tech Fall. Now I see someone favoring Howe in folk. I completely disagree with this assertion. I just don't see the merit in all this Howe jockstrap swinging.

 

Don't forget that last freestyle result isn't the only freestyle result between Taylor/Howe. Howe also had a dominating win over Taylor in freestyle after Taylor ran through 165 a month earlier at the ncaas (Taylor was also undefeated for the entire year and the Hodge winner). So, when people favored Howe in freestyle over DT, it was for more than just mere speculation. It was partly because of what had already happened between the two up to that point.

 

The merit in the Howe "jockstrap swinging" is in the fact that Howe is a former undefeated champ at 165, a multiple time 74kg finalist at the World/Olympic Trials, is 1-1 with Taylor, a former TRUE freshman ncaa finalist, and just a tough kid overall.

 

I say Howe doesn't win NCAA this year. He is not good enough to win matches against the best guys by keeping it close all the time. He is not the technician that Dake is/was.

 

Howe does't keep it close "all the time", and again, he's a former undefeated ncaa champ who has traded win with Taylor.

 

I agree that Howe is no lock for the title this year. Perry is underestimated. Perry is very tough and I believe he's beaten 2 time champ, Quentin Wright every single time they have wrestled.

 

I think the Taylor - Howe match in folk would look a lot like Taylor vs. Caldwell. Taylor 10-0.

 

I highly doubt that, but it's definitely possible; especially if Howe attempts an ill advised freestyle front headlock throw/turn like he did last time. That one mistake put him in a very bad position and allowed him to be easily turned by DT. The chances of Howe trying that again, in a folkstyle match, are slim to none.

 

I'm also interested to see if Taylor beats Caldwell 10-0 again. It's funny that that result was immediately see as the likely average/normal result between the two, but Kyle Dake's domination of Taylor wasn't viewed the same way right after it happened.

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Taylor would at minimum major all 174's except Perry and Howe. This includes Storley, Evans, Kokesh, etc. I think he would beat Perry fairly convincing, by at least 6. Perry has zero offense. Howe is a close match, I would favor Taylor by a take down and riding time.

 

How do Caldwell and Perry match up in the room? Everyone thought Caldwell had a chance last year to slow him down, like he does everyone else. Result, Taylor 10-0.

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People were saying free favored Howe last summer because "Howe is such a bull". "He'd push Taylor all the mat and wear him down." Result = Taylor Tech Fall. Now I see someone favoring Howe in folk. I completely disagree with this assertion. I just don't see the merit in all this Howe jockstrap swinging.

 

I say Howe doesn't win NCAA this year. He is not good enough to win matches against the best guys by keeping it close all the time. He is not the technician that Dake is/was.

 

I think the Taylor - Howe match in folk would look a lot like Taylor vs. Caldwell. Taylor 10-0.

Unless he gets injured, Howe is winning 174. He may kill everyone by a point but his head/hands offense and defense is ridiculous.

 

There is no way Taylor could put 10 points on the board against him in Folkstyle. Taylor caught a nice trapped arm gut and any wrestler worth his salt will get at least 2 exposures from that.

 

Taylor can definitely beat Howe. To think Howe can't beat Taylor is a little shortsighted. I can't see Perry beating Taylor because he isn't going to ride Taylor with his style of legs. I also don't see Perry taking DT down.

 

Once again, the art of fighting hands gets lost when assessing the best in the sport. Dake is one of the best ever at it and Howe has a predictable but outstanding approach to controlling his opponent.

 

Taylor/Howe is a pick em'.

174

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