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JohnnyThompsonnum1

Meeting twice in the same tournament with diff result

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In 2003 Jon Masa of Hofstra and Dustin Monotti of Cornell met in the first round. Monotti won 10-1 major decision. They met again two days later with Masa winning 12-2 major decision.

 

In 2009 Stephen Anceravage of Cornell and Quentin Wright of Penn State met in the second round with Wright winning 8-6. They met again in the 5th place bout with Anceravage winning 13-3.

 

I remember once at the BIG 10's Mark Moos majoring Tom Clum of Wisconsin early on to lose to him in the third place bout when they met again.

 

I also know that one of the Steiner's lost at the NCAA's once to come back and tech fall the guy later in the tournament.

 

I always find results like this very fascinating. Recall any more?

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This is an interesting phenomenon, I have always found it intriguing.

 

I think it just boils down to figuring you opponent out.

 

I can give an example from myself in HS. I met a guy in the quarters at States and lost 6-1 (or something like that). He basically won the td battle, and then dominated me on top with tough rides and legs.

 

I met him for 3rd place the next day, and won 7-1. I tightened up on my feet and looked to counter his aggressiveness, and when he did get on top I stopped legs coming in and brought the match back to our feet.

 

Now take this example to the college level...these guys are gamers and know why and how they lost when they drop a match. Getting to see a guy again so soon in that situation is probably a blessing to most of them...that is unless they are just totally outclassed, but that is fairly rare at the D1 level, especially in these situations

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This is an interesting phenomenon, I have always found it intriguing.

 

I think it just boils down to figuring you opponent out.

That, and sometimes all it takes is one mistake to lose a match, or one great move to win a match, and in the re-match the mistake is made by the other guy. The difference between a 1-3 loss and a 3-1 win can be razor thin.

 

Now take this example to the college level...these guys are gamers and know why and how they lost when they drop a match. Getting to see a guy again so soon in that situation is probably a blessing to most of them...that is unless they are just totally outclassed, but that is fairly rare at the D1 level, especially in these situations

I've often felt that in a rematch in the same tournament where the first meeting was close, the guy who lost is at no disadvantage whatsoever, and often has a slight mental advantage. It's hard to beat someone twice back to back in close matches, and the guy who previously lost knows how close he was, and has been hungry for revenge all day.

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In 2003 Jon Masa of Hofstra and Dustin Monotti of Cornell met in the first round. Monotti won 10-1 major decision. They met again two days later with Masa winning 12-2 major decision.

 

In 2009 Stephen Anceravage of Cornell and Quentin Wright of Penn State met in the second round with Wright winning 8-6. They met again in the 5th place bout with Anceravage winning 13-3.

 

I remember once at the BIG 10's Mark Moos majoring Tom Clum of Wisconsin early on to lose to him in the third place bout when they met again.

 

I also know that one of the Steiner's lost at the NCAA's once to come back and tech fall the guy later in the tournament.

 

I always find results like this very fascinating. Recall any more?

 

 

1999 165 Blackford upsets #1 seed Heskett in quarters 2-2 TB, Heskett gets revenge in 3rd place match 7-2.

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now that I think about it, 1999 NCAAs had at least two more that come to mind. Larkin beat Juergens in quarters at 133, Juergens later beat Larkin for 3rd. At Hvy, Apedoe from VMI beat Ward from Oklahoma in quarters, Ward reversed the result in 5th place match.

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Sometimes is just boils down to how different people react to an early loss in an event.

There are those guys who seem to always wrestle back with heart, while others seem to lose some spark.

 

Even in a single match, there is so much psychology going on. Some people wrestle better with a lead, some tend to panic slightly when behind.

 

In all sports, the mental aspect is vital. Being consistent in your approach and attitude is important. Athletes who can stay focused and not let any of the myriad of events affect them that can happen in a match/tourney will succeed.

 

I get reminded of Tiger Woods. His strength used to be his mental toughness, now, the lack of it is his downfall.

 

cya

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I think it has to do with momentum and motivation as well. If you've won a few matches in a row in the consis you are rolling, feeling good about the way you are wrestling. More than likely, the winner of the first match has just lost his shot at the championship. Also, there is probably a little underestimation if the first result was significant.

 

Just my thoughts.

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Most recently .... in 2011

 

Adam Hall mysteriously lost to Welch in the Semi's 1-3, then won 5-1 in the 5th/6th place match.

How does one win a semifinal match, yet wrestle for 5th/6th?

Lol probably just a typo but Welch beat Hall in the quarters that year.

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Was wondering if weight pulling has something to do with it as well. I'm thinking someone pulling alot of weight is naturally not going to feel as good as when their wrestling on a full stomach. Some of the examples above seem to have occurred on the last day of the tournament, where they didn't have to worry about making weight anymore. Obviously, if both wrestlers were pulling the same amount of weight though, this idea doesn't carry much 'weight' :-)

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Was wondering if weight pulling has something to do with it as well. I'm thinking someone pulling alot of weight is naturally not going to feel as good as when their wrestling on a full stomach. Some of the examples above seem to have occurred on the last day of the tournament, where they didn't have to worry about making weight anymore. Obviously, if both wrestlers were pulling the same amount of weight though, this idea doesn't carry much 'weight' :-)

 

Very good point on the weight cutting being a big reason for these matches.

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Maybe someone can remember when this was but one of the years I was the scorer we actually had two guys wrestle THREE times. I don't think the same guy won all three.

There was a screwup by the table/officials as to who was given a stalling warning. This was helped by the way we assigned anklet colors at the time. One school was Minnesota and I think the other was Nebraska or possibly NC State. Basically a darker red versus a brighter one. And naturally the darker red was assigned red. The scorers and officials couldn't independently recall who got the stall so they rewrestled the bout. Only time I'm aware that this had happened. Then they met again in the consolations. I believe early 90s but not sure.

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Maybe someone can remember when this was but one of the years I was the scorer we actually had two guys wrestle THREE times. I don't think the same guy won all three.

 

Wrestling three times in the same tournament isn't unprecedented. It happens fairly regularly in the DIII New England Wrestling Association conference tournament. The NEWA tournament is the only wrestling tournament I've ever seen with true double elimination format. in this format each wrestler has to lose twice before they are eliminated. So sometimes the first and second place finishers will wrestle each other three times if they split the first two bouts.

 

Here is an example of this from the 2012 tournament at 174 pounds - http://static.psbin.com/l/1/vk2dz2k455k ... nal174.pdf

 

Roosa defeated Bates 7-4 in the semifinal.

Bates wins his way though the consolation bracket, meanwhile Roosa wins the winners bracket against Longo.

This leaves three wrestlers without two losses. Bates who would finish third in a regular tournament, Roosa who would finish 1st and Longo who would finish second.

 

In the NEWA format Bates gets to wrestle Longo for second. Bates wins (Longo is eliminated and finished 3rd) setting up a rematch against Roosa in the final. This time Bates wins 10-8. Now Bates and Roosa each have one loss so they wrestle a third time. In their final match Roosa wins 6-1 and is New England Champion.

 

Not sure if any D1 tournament has ever used this format.

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