Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SalvatoreG

Iowa... Honest question

Recommended Posts

I see you're not willing to be serious any longer. This is common behavior on this board when someone knows they can no longer defend their position.

 

you need a new hobby.

 

It's either this or bingo. I choose this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Midlands 149# 2nd round:

 

Rylan Lubeck (unranked Wisc) pins Darrion Caldwell (former ncaa champ and one time potential Olympic gold hopeful) in first period.

 

In the spirit of this thread, I guess we can all assume Lubeck and everyone else have far surpassed Caldwell. Caldwell's old shoulder injury and surgery is not important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Midlands 149# 2nd round:

 

Rylan Lubeck (unranked Wisc) pins Darrion Caldwell (former ncaa champ and one time potential Olympic gold hopeful) in first period.

 

In the spirit of this thread, I guess we can all assume Lubeck and everyone else have far surpassed Caldwell. Caldwell's old shoulder injury and surgery is not important.

 

Poor technique. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Midlands 149# 2nd round:

 

Rylan Lubeck (unranked Wisc) pins Darrion Caldwell (former ncaa champ and one time potential Olympic gold hopeful) in first period.

 

In the spirit of this thread, I guess we can all assume Lubeck and everyone else have far surpassed Caldwell. Caldwell's old shoulder injury and surgery is not important.

 

 

Where did anyone say that a shoulder injury is not important?

 

How do we know that Caldwell's shoulder injury was at play here? Did you see the match?

 

 

 

In the spirit of this thread, I guess we can all assume Lubeck and everyone else have far surpassed Caldwell.

 

In the spirit of this thread? Care to explain? Do you think it's an unreasonable opinion to think that Delgado surpassed McD in wrestling ability last season?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Midlands 149# 2nd round:

 

Rylan Lubeck (unranked Wisc) pins Darrion Caldwell (former ncaa champ and one time potential Olympic gold hopeful) in first period.

 

In the spirit of this thread, I guess we can all assume Lubeck and everyone else have far surpassed Caldwell. Caldwell's old shoulder injury and surgery is not important.

 

Poor technique. :lol:

 

Maybe Caldwell, like McD, did use poor technique in his loss. I remember Caldwell getting sloppy on occasion. Did you see the match?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Midlands 149# 2nd round:

 

Rylan Lubeck (unranked Wisc) pins Darrion Caldwell (former ncaa champ and one time potential Olympic gold hopeful) in first period.

 

In the spirit of this thread, I guess we can all assume Lubeck and everyone else have far surpassed Caldwell. Caldwell's old shoulder injury and surgery is not important.

 

 

Where did anyone say that a shoulder injury is not important?

 

How do we know that Caldwell's shoulder injury was at play here? Did you see the match?

Doesn't sound as if injury had anything to do with it - but that's just going off DC's tweet. We shall see.

 

Anyway, he's kind of a gunslinger so it wouldn't surprise me if he just got caught. Remember his bout with Ryan Lang from Northwestern during his freshman year at NCAA's? Even though DC got pinned, they both got a standing ovation from the crowd. It reminded me of the Hagler - Hearns fight. Lots of great action with each guy trying to pin the other.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No that just means that Lubeck is better than Metcalf. Caldwell's shoulder was 100% because he chose not to make a statement on it before he wrestled.

We have all heard "embrace the grind", well as an Iowa fan I've just learned to embrace the hate. It's always going to be there, just embrace it and have fun with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No that just means that Lubeck is better than Metcalf. Caldwell's shoulder was 100% because he chose not to make a statement on it before he wrestled.

We have all heard "embrace the grind", well as an Iowa fan I've just learned to embrace the hate. It's always going to be there, just embrace it and have fun with it.

 

What statements in this thread lead you to believe that Iowa is hated?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hahaha I'm not answering one of your questions Superold. One leads to 20. I'll just say the answer to your question should be obvious.

 

I just hope you aren't implying that it's me. That would be wrong. For the record, I've never said anything that can be interpreted by any honest reader as showing hatred, or even dislike, towards Iowa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See the posts much earlier in this (it started around page 3 or 4) thread about how Iowa "will fall apart next year and has no recruiting. Brands burns people out. McDonough was not that hurt and just wrestled bad."

 

None of the above are direct quotes but they were all said or alluded to in this thread. Either some people are plain dumb and do not understand how cycles work and injuries work, or it's Iowa hate. I would much rather think that it's just Iowa hate rather than a such a level of stupidity exists in some people. I'm a glass half full kind of guy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See the posts much earlier in this (it started around page 3 or 4) thread about how Iowa "will fall apart next year and has no recruiting. Brands burns people out. McDonough was not that hurt and just wrestled bad."

 

None of the above are direct quotes but they were all said or alluded to in this thread. Either some people are plain dumb and do not understand how cycles work and injuries work, or it's Iowa hate. I would much rather think that it's just Iowa hate rather than a such a level of stupidity exists in some people. I'm a glass half full kind of guy.

 

I firmly believe, with McDonough, that he wrestled poorly at the ncaas. I believe he had some problems physically that affected his wrestling, but I don't believe that all his problems can be chalked up to his injury. Though hurt, he was capable of wrestling better. I would go as far as to say that there's no way that someone could honestly come to any other conclusion if they simply watched the matches. Some have already made up their minds, and are willing to discard every piece of evidence and reason that doesn't support their biased conclusions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

superold - it also could be a mental thing as far as McD is concerned.

 

Losing that one huge weapon he had (the stretched out pull in leg double/single) may have so severely hurt his confidence that the rest of his game was not up to his level either. And maybe he wasn't feeling all that great from teh weight cut creating a situation where he is not able to innovate new techniques to replace the ones no longer affective because of injury.

 

Basically.. no one knows but McD and even then I don't think he can understand what was always going on mentally/physically. Wrestling is such an intense emotional/physical sport and the smallest thing out of balance can throw some guys off.

 

It is rare for someone to either never a serious injury (Sanderson) or for injuries when they come to not affect their performances (ala Burroughs).

 

Either way even if McD never competes again he was an absolute beast. Winning NCAA's twice, and getting 2nd another time to an EXTREMELY rare wrestler in Robles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
superold - it also could be a mental thing as far as McD is concerned.

 

Losing that one huge weapon he had (the stretched out pull in leg double/single) may have so severely hurt his confidence that the rest of his game was not up to his level either. And maybe he wasn't feeling all that great from teh weight cut creating a situation where he is not able to innovate new techniques to replace the ones no longer affective because of injury.

 

Basically.. no one knows but McD and even then I don't think he can understand what was always going on mentally/physically. Wrestling is such an intense emotional/physical sport and the smallest thing out of balance can throw some guys off.

 

It is rare for someone to either never a serious injury (Sanderson) or for injuries when they come to not affect their performances (ala Burroughs).

 

Either way even if McD never competes again he was an absolute beast. Winning NCAA's twice, and getting 2nd another time to an EXTREMELY rare wrestler in Robles.

 

 

No doubt, it could also be a mental thing. Several different issues can exist simultaneously, it doesn't have to be an either/or. McDonough does mention being affected mentally, I don't doubt that he was. The thing is, he was able to function well enough to secure a 3 seed at the ncaas, and beat guys like Garrett and Megaludis along the way. He was also able to make it to the quarters where he had the advantage over Garret going into the 3rd period. He was well enough to win that match. An honest look at the match will reveal that he wrestled poorly in the 3rd period, and the few seconds of the OT that transpired. And McD, like everyone else, is responsible for his weigh cut and mental state. It's unfortunate if he let it become a bigger factor than it should have been. I'm sure he learned a lot from that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously there were multiple factors involved as stated already. That being said, how long was McD hurt? I contend that having a torn labrum for an extended period of time had a huge affect on his ability to prepare...ie practice. Inability to practice like you know you should be practicing will have a huge affect on you physically and mentally...it's all related but most sane people would have to admit that if you have to go most of the season with a bum shoulder...you won't be as prepared as you would be with a full season with two good shoulders. Sure he didn't wrestle well at the NCAA's, sure he won some big matches throughout the season despite the fact. I contend that most of the guys wouldn't have even been in those matches to make the difference if McD was healthy the whole year. And yes, McD could have wrestled better and won those matches despite the fact, it's all on him but I think the shoulder was a major overall factor.

 

And did you really say you tend to believe all people with their word??? Do politicians count?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Obviously there were multiple factors involved as stated already. That being said, how long was McD hurt? I contend that having a torn labrum for an extended period of time had a huge affect on his ability to prepare...ie practice. Inability to practice like you know you should be practicing will have a huge affect on you physically and mentally...it's all related but most sane people would have to admit that if you have to go most of the season with a bum shoulder...you won't be as prepared as you would be with a full season with two good shoulders. Sure he didn't wrestle well at the NCAA's, sure he won some big matches throughout the season despite the fact. I contend that most of the guys wouldn't have even been in those matches to make the difference if McD was healthy the whole year. And yes, McD could have wrestled better and won those matches despite the fact, it's all on him but I think the shoulder was a major overall factor.

 

And did you really say you tend to believe all people with their word??? Do politicians count?

 

We largely agree cardsfsc. My position is very modest actually. All I'm saying is that all of McD's failures last season cannot reasonably be chalked up simply to his arm/shoulder. There was some poor wrestling in key situations that many don't want to admit to even though it is plain to see.

 

I take everyone at their word unless I have a very good reason to doubt them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole thread is becoming "superold."

 

Trying to parse out an exact percentage of how much a torn labrum affects wrestling is absurd. Selective excerpts from interviews or tweets is great fun, but doesn't prove much of anything. At this high level of wrestling, injury leading to even a slight decrease in strength or speed can be enough to lose an edge.

 

Most anyone, except for the Iowa haters, would concede McD was wrestling with a serious injury and not at full strength.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This whole thread is becoming "superold."

 

Trying to parse out an exact percentage of how much a torn labrum affects wrestling is absurd. Selective excerpts from interviews or tweets is great fun, but doesn't prove much of anything. At this high level of wrestling, injury leading to even a slight decrease in strength or speed can be enough to lose an edge.

 

Most anyone, except for the Iowa haters, would concede McD was wrestling with a serious injury and not at full strength.

 

Why won't you address me directly? You aren't willing to answer any of the questions that I asked you. Many here put words in my mouth and distort my clear statements. Which one of my statements do you find unreasonable?

 

I said numerous times that I believed that McDonough's shoulder/arm played a role in his wrestling performance last year. Why are so many acting as if I said something different? And I'm not trying to "parse out an exact percentage", I'm merely stating that you can't reasonably chalk up all of McD's failures last year to an injury. It is clear as day that he wrestled very poorly in big situations at ncaa's last year. That's a fact that only those with an agenda deny. I don't see how anyone can look at the 3rd period and OT of the Garrett match last year and say that McD wrestled well, or that he was incapable of wrestling better. When I ask most direct questions, they ignore it. Then they treat me as if I'm the one being unreasonable. That's utterly ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rossel3,

 

You never answered any questions about Caldwell. Did you see his Midlands match or not? Was his loss due to his shoulder injury?

 

Caldwell has fought 3 mma fights, starting in September of 2012. His last fight was July 19, 2013. Is he still fighting with a significant shoulder injury? I really would like to know what you think. What is the reasonable position to take here, is Caldwell winning all his matches (he's 3-0) with a bad shoulder? If he loses can we simply chalk it up to him having a bad shoulder no matter what happens? I honestly would like to know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rossel3 isn't going to give you any honest answers, superold. His primary modi operandi include asking strawman questions and distorting others' positions (as he has yours). The plain fact of the matter is that he wants folks to believe that McDonough's shoulder injury was the only reason for his decline in performance. And, in his world, anyone who doesn't agree 100% with his subjective opinion is, ipso facto, an "Iowa basher."

 

Unfortunately for Rossel, Mcdonough himself has confirmed that the shoulder injury was not the only thing bothering him in 2013. Matt also cited the toll the weight cut took on him, as well as his mental preparation, as other problems that impacted his performance.

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rossel3 isn't going to give you any honest answers, superold. His primary modi operandi include asking strawman questions and distorting others' positions (as he has yours). The plain fact of the matter is that he wants folks to believe that McDonough's shoulder injury was the only reason for his decline in performance. And, in his world, anyone who doesn't agree 100% with his subjective opinion is, ipso facto, an "Iowa basher."

 

Unfortunately for Rossel, Mcdonough himself has confirmed that the shoulder injury was not the only thing bothering him in 2013. Matt also cited the toll the weight cut took on him, as well as his mental preparation, as other problems that impacted his performance.

.

 

 

I don't see why it's so hard to accept reality. McD's comments are perfectly consistent with what actually took place on the mat. Why can't we simply just follow wherever the evidence leads? We should simply observe the evidence, and follow the path of least resistance when it comes to coming to a conclusion about what really happened. What's funny, is that I don't believe McD's comments were even needed to confirm that my position was true. Anyone actually watching the matches, who's trying to be objective, would come to the same conclusions.

 

I wish more would actually address my actual position, and answer the few questions that I asked. Are they afraid that answering the questions would reveal that my position is more reasonable than their own? What's really the purpose of these "sniping" comments from these posters? What are they accomplishing by making these sarcastic comments that only address a mere caricature of the stated position?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What are the questions you want answered super? I'd love to answer them as best as I can.

 

I wasn't talking about you cardsfsc. As I recall, our positions are very similar. I was more talking about a few other posters on this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What are the questions you want answered super? I'd love to answer them as best as I can.

 

I wasn't talking about you cardsfsc. As I recall, our positions are very similar. I was more talking about a few other posters on this thread.

 

if you are allowing for the shoulder injury to have had a negative affect on McD's NCAA performance, despite what he or Brands may have said immediately following the tournament, then i now dont believe there is much discrepancy in our opinions on the matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Obviously there were multiple factors involved as stated already. That being said, how long was McD hurt? I contend that having a torn labrum for an extended period of time had a huge affect on his ability to prepare...ie practice. Inability to practice like you know you should be practicing will have a huge affect on you physically and mentally...it's all related but most sane people would have to admit that if you have to go most of the season with a bum shoulder...you won't be as prepared as you would be with a full season with two good shoulders. Sure he didn't wrestle well at the NCAA's, sure he won some big matches throughout the season despite the fact. I contend that most of the guys wouldn't have even been in those matches to make the difference if McD was healthy the whole year. And yes, McD could have wrestled better and won those matches despite the fact, it's all on him but I think the shoulder was a major overall factor.

 

And did you really say you tend to believe all people with their word??? Do politicians count?

 

Well I agree with cardsfsc post too. So I guess the argument is settled - at least for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...