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Best HS Wrestlers All Time

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It is indeed remarkable. The same names belched out. The same relative age group. The same staggering parochialism. The same casting aside of all reasonable arguments. One's a Marty. One's a Bob. Like mirror-image twins, except that you never hear Bob bang on SUFFOLK like his twin, because Bob's from NASSAU.

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Best high school wrestler I saw in my era was Sean Hage. He won about 6-8 Junior National titles and a junior world title in freestyle. Didn't pan out in college so he is often forgotten. For some of the older members, how big was Schultz in high school...do you all remember a high school having a senior level events at the upper weights?

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Dan Gable and others said and I agree with...Joe Russell of OR. Now the head coach at George Mason. Had wins over Andre Metzger and other top wrestlers while a Junior in HS. Had he not been injured might have been the 1st 4x NCAA champ.

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Ok ^^^^that post alone is definitely Marty or someone trying to troll by posting exactly like him, the exact same arguments, and the exact same use of capitalization/punctuations for dramatic effect.

 

If he's not Marty, then he does a gosh darn good Marty impression.

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I think Joe Russell gets forgotten a lot as well, great addition to the convo.

Saw him at a clinic here in MO last year and the guy is a class act. Very unfortunate that an accident stopped him short of a very promising career on the mat.

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FWIW Pico is done with HS and college wrestling.....

 

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/1/4/526 ... -ever-seen

 

From the article...

 

"I'm not going to wrestle in high school or college," said Pico, who has decided to focus entirely on freestyle wrestling, finishing high school with courses online, and traveling abroad to get the best training possible.

He hadn't announced the decision until this week, just before the Doc Buchanan tournament in Clovis, Calif. that would have been the start of his sophomore wrestling season.

 

His reasons....

 

"I did the whole high school season and enjoyed that," he said. "But freestyle and folkstyle are completely different. In order to compete with the highest level guys, you have to do freestyle. The competition is tougher at the international level. I wish the U.S. would convert (school programs) to freestyle, and I think if they did, we'd do better as a country on the international level than what we've done before. I've wrestled at all kinds of levels. It comes down to one thing. I love to do freestyle."

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FWIW Pcio is done with HS and College wrestling....

 

http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/1/4/526 ... -ever-seen

 

"I'm not going to wrestle in high school or college," said Pico, who has decided to focus entirely on freestyle wrestling, finishing high school with courses online, and traveling abroad to get the best training possible.

He hadn't announced the decision until this week, just before the Doc Buchanan tournament in Clovis, Calif. that would have been the start of his sophomore wrestling season.

 

"I did the whole high school season and enjoyed that," he said. "But freestyle and folkstyle are completely different. In order to compete with the highest level guys, you have to do freestyle. The competition is tougher at the international level. I wish the U.S. would convert (school programs) to freestyle, and I think if they did, we'd do better as a country on the international level than what we've done before. I've wrestled at all kinds of levels. It comes down to one thing. I love to do freestyle."

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Jeff Clark- Voorheesville HS NY. Greco star at a young age. Beat senior level European studs while still in HS. Early 80s.

He was teammates with future Greco Olympian Shawn Sheldon. According to reliable ATWA sources, Sheldon never scored a point on Clark in practice.

 

Is there anyone who remembers this? If there were message boards in 1982, he would have been talked about. Grew, went to Harvard where he wrestled. Not sure if he lost interest or what, but never came close to achieving those heights again.

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One of the best I saw was Angel Cejudo. Had only 1 loss in high school, an injury default as a freshman. Won everything there was to win. Placed 3rd in an extremely tough senior nationals weight, lost to Sherfy who upset Tsirtsis in the finals. Besides the loss as a freshman only had a blemish his senior year winning his 4th state title by injury default. I don't think that was the way he wanted it to happen. His little brother turned out to be pretty decent too, I guess.

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Just a couple questions. I've heard about the creds of Dave Schultz in HS and they are incredible. Jimmy Carr was impressive (less impressive than Schultz imo). How did Carr fare in HS? Was he a 3 time undefeated state champ? Just curious here. Also despite the incredible achievements of these guys Dave Schultz only won 1 NCAA title (although a 3 time AA I think) and Carr only finished as an All American once I think (5th place I'm thinking). It seems that these guys underachieved considering their freestyle success. Do any of you guys know what happened with Carr and why he didn't have more success in college? And Schultz, judging by his international success as a Jr in HS, probably should've been a 3 or 4 time champ.

 

I know there is a big diff between freestyle and folkstyle, but Midlands is folkstyle and those guys both won it in HS while beating NCAA champs. This whole thing seems screwy to me.

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Just found an old Jeff Clark clipping online. It said he was ranked #1 in the nation and was set to represent the US at the 1983 Worlds in Kiev. Was this the senior worlds? I believe he was a HS junior at the time.

 

So if true, he probably hurt his chances at immortality by being a year early. He also probably hurt himself (wrestling-wise) by attending Harvard instead of a power. He admits in an article in the Harvard Crimson that he was burned out as a freshman and training was not anywhere near his top priority.

 

Interesting. Would be great if someone were to have more info on this.

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How did Carr fare in HS? Was he a 3 time undefeated state champ? Do any of you guys know what happened with Carr and why he didn't have more success in college?

 

Carr was 53-2 in HS. His freshman and sophomore seasons he lost in the regional tournament. I believe, as a result, he did not qualify for the state tournament. He was an undefeated PA state champ as a junior. He moved to Kentucky his senior year and did not wrestle HS (followed his brother Fletcher who just started the Univ of Kentucky wrestling program and was coaching it). He did, however, win Midlands (OW award) as a senior. He was already married with two infant daughters by the time he moved to Kentucky and would add a son during his sophomore year. As a true freshman at Univ of Kentucky, he was the #2 seed at the 1975 NCAA tournment but DNP. Not sure what happened in 1976, but he did not wrestle in the NCAA tournament. He placed 5th at the 1977 NCAA tournament. I believe he dropped out of school after that and did not wrestle collegiately again. There was mention of him joining the Univ. of Alabama wrestling team for the 1979 season, but I am not sure that ever happened.

 

Here is a link to the SI article on Carr from 1975

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

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One of the best I saw was Angel Cejudo. Had only 1 loss in high school, an injury default as a freshman. Won everything there was to win. Placed 3rd in an extremely tough senior nationals weight, lost to Sherfy who upset Tsirtsis in the finals. Besides the loss as a freshman only had a blemish his senior year winning his 4th state title by injury default. I don't think that was the way he wanted it to happen. His little brother turned out to be pretty decent too, I guess.

 

Angel Cejudo was very very good, but when you have a sentence like "3rd at Senior Nationals losing to Tyler Sherfey" that kind of disqualify one from contention for greatest ever? Cejudo was always kind of in the shadow of somebody that was a bit better- Tsirtsis, Dustin Schlatter, etc.

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How did Carr fare in HS? Was he a 3 time undefeated state champ? Do any of you guys know what happened with Carr and why he didn't have more success in college?

 

Carr was 53-2 in HS. His freshman and sophomore seasons he lost in the regional tournament. I believe, as a result, he did not qualify for the state tournament. He was an undefeated PA state champ as a junior. He moved to Kentucky his senior year and did not wrestle HS (followed his brother Fletcher who just started the Univ of Kentucky wrestling program and was coaching it). He did, however, win Midlands (OW award) as a senior. He was already married with two infant daughters by the time he moved to Kentucky and would add a son during his sophomore year. As a true freshman at Univ of Kentucky, he was the #2 seed at the 1975 NCAA tournment but DNP. Not sure what happened in 1976, but he did not wrestle in the NCAA tournament. He placed 5th at the 1977 NCAA tournament. I believe he dropped out of school after that and did not wrestle collegiately again. There was mention of him joining the Univ. of Alabama wrestling team for the 1979 season, but I am not sure that ever happened.

 

Here is a link to the SI article on Carr from 1975

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

 

You know, this was all a bit before my time so I can't claim to be an expert, but in my mind one of the greatest myths in wrestling is this "Jimmy Carr was the greatest high school wrestler of all time things". I have no idea how he won Midlands or made the Olympic Team, but consistency has to count for something, you can't be a one or two hit wonder and get GOAT status. The greatest high school wrestler of all time didn't QUALIFY state until his junior year? And only went on to place once at NCAA's- taking just 5th? Did he get worse after high school or something? In today's era, we have had many high schoolers who were capable of placing 5th or higher in my view at NCAAs. Why, right now, I'd say either Kyle Snyder or Aaron Pico could, maybe Marstellar too. Last year I think Bo Jordan could have placed 5th. Certainly Kolat, Alan Fried, or Dustin Schlatter could have in my view. David Taylor, Brent Metcalf, Troy Nickerson, Henry Cejudo, Logan Stieber, Lincoln Mac, Pat Smith, Steve Mocco, and Damian Hahn all would have a great chance to do as well as Carr ever managed in four years of college as well, in my view, while still in high school.

 

Obviously, this is all conjecture, but looking at how they do with post collegians, or hit the ground running the following year, I think great cases can be made for all- for instance, Mac, Smith, and Schlatter were all true frosh NCAA Champs, and Smith and Schlatter were dominant in doing so. In Schlatter's case, when he was a senior in high school, he had wrestled six guys that either made AA or made the round of 12. His record against them: 6-0. Logan had already beaten Sam Hazewinkel, and come within a buzzer beating takedown of beating Angel Escobedo. Cejudo had beaten Kudokov (before he was world champ) and almost beaten Sammy Henson as I recall. Pico has already beaten a senior level Russian, by tech fall. That Russian was a finalist at the Yarygin. Kolat as I recall trashed Barry Davis in high school, and Sean O'Day as well. Maybe Carr burned out and was just better in high school. Stranger things have happened, hell in Ohio, we have had several unreal wrestling prodigies (who need not be named) that had Olympic Gold Medalist talent, but instead peaked in the ninth grade.

 

I guess what I would like to know is, from any wrestling historians, is what were the credentials of the guys Carr beat to make the Olympic Team and win Midlands? Also, did he make the team at 105.5 or 114.5? Obviously, not many grown men can make 105.5.....

 

Before people jump all over me, obviously Jimmy Carr was a great, great high school wrestler and I couldn't carry his jock if I was driving a forklift with my single state title, so lets get that out of the way. But greatest of all time? I am skeptical of this often-repeated claim.

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Admin,

 

Just a couple additional facts.

-- In 1971 and 1972, when Jimmy Carr did not qualify for PA state, it was a single class system and, I think, only one wrestler from each region qualified for the state tournament. For example, as a sophomore in 1972, Carr lost 6-5 in overtime in the regional final to Henry Green, who went on to win the state title that year.

-- Carr qualified for the Olympic team at 114.5 lb.

-- In winning Midlands as a senior in 1974, he beat 1973 NCAA Champ Mark Massery 11-7 in the finals and won the OW award.

-- I have no idea why his collegiate career was not better. I would guess, however, that being a father of two before graduating high school and a father of three by the time he is a college sophomore, could have been distracting.

 

Anyway, I understand why you are skeptical when you see 1 state championship and 1 NCAA placement. I still think with a Olympic berth and Midlands OW award, he gets in the GOAT discussion.

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Ohio_Wrestling_Admin, I do like your point about consistency. So the question is best HS wrestler for their entrie career? Because Schultz getting 2nd at Tbilisi and Carr getting 5th at worlds while still in HS is pretty darn impressive. If we're saying career though, I think it has to be Kolat or Fried for dominance purposes.

 

Also, not to say they are the best ever, but it is pretty impressive what the Baldwin brothers out of Florida and the Pyke brothers out of Georgia have accomplished. The sheer volume of in-season matches those four have wrestled is mind-boggling.

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Ohio_Wrestling_Admin,

 

It's easy to simply say that all of those guys could have made AA as high school wrestlers. Bottom line is, they didn't. Some of them may have been able to, but there's no way to say for sure. Do you remember all the hype Marsteller was getting before he went to the Jr. Trials a few years ago? Look what happened when the matches were actually wrestled.

 

Anyway, in HS Carr also beat Russian Olympic Gold medalist Roman Dmitrov.

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Is there a difference to be made between "greatest accomplishment" by a higher school wrestler vs. simply "greatest" high school wrestler?

 

BTW- Pico cannot be in this conversation based on winning cadet worlds, anymore than Snyder is based on winning junior worlds. Pico looked great at the Ironman. Snyder looked greater. It should be acknowledged that Pico had a tougher final opponent (4-3 win over Micah Jordan) than Snyder.

 

I also wouldn't expect "potential" to be part of the conversation.

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Thanks to the posters above for the additional facts on Carr, seems like my assumptions were off base to some extent, given Carr's wins over the NCAA Champ and Olympic Gold Medalist, and that he perhaps just lost focus later in his career.

 

FWIW, I do think that Snyder and Pico are in the conversation for greatest ever. Winning Jr. Worlds (17-20 year old division) at the age of 17 is an enormous achievement. We have had very few of our very best collegians win this event, so to win going into your senior year of high school is very impressive. I know that Pico was pushed hard by Micah, and beaten by Dean Heil, but let's bear in mind this was a freshman wrestling at 132 against upperclassmen (yes a very old freshman, but still). Pico is at a completely different level now it would seem. I suspect that both of these guys are going to be in the hunt to make the US Team this summer. We shall see.

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