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Best HS Wrestlers All Time

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A great link showing the last losses for today's high school superstars. Under this metric one wrestler stands above all others as the only one to have never lost to another high school wrestler while in high school himself.

 

Chance Marstellar

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/article/245 ... uktKRx49Jk

 

Chance last lost to a high school wrestler in 2009, while he was in 8th grade. Everyone else on this list lost while in high school to another high school wrestler. This includes Snyder, Pico, Nickal, Nevills, Nolf, McKenna, Micah Jordan and others.

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injury default or just a normal loss?

 

was that the match when he tore up his elbow?

 

Injury default. Superold has it in for Marstellar, so he tends to get his panties in a bunch when his name comes up. The fact that Marstellar hasn't been touched in 4 years, and has taken down numerous state champs across the country must really bother Superold.

 

You can watch the match yourself and see that Marstellar was close on several occasions to finishing. It isn't much of a stretch to think he wins this match if he doesn't dislocate his elbow. His opponent went on to dominate the Russian kid in the finals.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/24 ... Semi-FInal

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Injury default. Superold has it in for Marstellar, so he tends to get his panties in a bunch when his name comes up. The fact that Marstellar hasn't been touched in 4 years, and has taken down numerous state champs across the country must really bother Superold.

 

Please don't lie about me tightwaist. I don't have it in for Marsteller. I have nothing against the kid at all. I'd challenge you to find anything derogatory that I've ever said about the kid.

 

And I don't care that Marsteller "hasn't been touched in 4 years". Well, actually, he has "been touched", since he's lost a few times in that time span. No offense to the kid, but it doesn't' matter to me that he's undefeated because 99% of his competition isn't very good. High school wrestling is done at a very low level, even by most "state champs".

 

I do give him credit for beating that one Olympian several months back. That was a very good win imo.

 

You can watch the match yourself and see that Marstellar was close on several occasions to finishing. It isn't much of a stretch to think he wins this match if he doesn't dislocate his elbow. His opponent went on to dominate the Russian kid in the finals.

 

I don't see why you continue to mention that Marsteller was "close on several occasions to finishing". The fact of the matter is he didn't finish. Close doesn't count. He very well could have continued to fail to convert on his shots throughout the rest of the match.

 

Tightwaist, if you are going to make accusations, it's best you bring some evidence to support them. Would you like it if someone made an accusation about you "having it in" for a HS kid?

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Superold, I am not really going to waste my time with you, after this post. The folks who post on these boards understand how you throw in digs at Marstellar. The fact that you bring up "he has been beaten over the past few years" above, when everyone understands that those "losses" were a dislocated elbow against a Ukrainian World Champ that he was taking it too, and to 2 college kids at the Jr World Trials, when Marstellar admits he was becoming burned out...is a perfect example. Other threads have generated the same from you and I really don't care to spend time finding them.

 

You can choose to dismiss the "low level" HS wrestling that state champs from Pa, NJ, Michigan, Oklahoma and others states (like a 4x champ from Va) represent, but I will give those kids the respect they deserve. Having watched wrestling for a few decades now, I can honestly say that Marstellar is a once in a generation talent at the high school level. I am not making predictions on how well he does in college, but his name needs to be included in any "best ever" HS conversation, based on his sheer dominance at an upper weight for 4 years in the toughest state in the country.

 

Take care!

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Superold, I am not really going to waste my time with you, after this post.

 

Good. If you aren't going to back up your many false claims, then please don't. For the record, you have failed to back up any of your claims against me. Thanks for showing everyone that fact.

 

The folks who post on these boards understand how you throw in digs at Marstellar.

 

For the record, I have not thrown in a single "dig" at Marsteller. If I have, name one. I'm waiting.

 

The fact that you bring up "he has been beaten over the past few years" above, when everyone understands that those "losses" were a dislocated elbow against a Ukrainian World Champ that he was taking it too, and to 2 college kids at the Jr. World Trials, when Marstellar admits he was becoming burned out...is a perfect example.

 

No it isn't Tightwaist. Is that the best you can bring to the table? You mentioned that he was untouched for 4 years, I simply corrected you and stated that he wasn't. If you lose, you have effectively been "touched".

 

a Ukrainian World Champ that he was taking it too

 

Clearly your biased. Honestly sit back and look at this quote Tightwaist. Look at it. Reality has escaped you. Tightwaist, ......he was losing the match!. Losing, not winning. If we are forced to frame this match in terms of one wrestler "taking it to" the other, it's much more accurate to say that Marsteller was getting it "taken to" him.

 

 

Other threads have generated the same from you and I really don't care to spend time finding them.

 

You can't find them because they don't exist. Those threads are nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

 

 

You can choose to dismiss the "low level" HS wrestling that state champs from Pa, NJ, Michigan, Oklahoma and others states (like a 4x champ from Va) represent, but I will give those kids the respect they deserve.

 

I'm giving the kids the respect they deserve. And my statement stands, HS wrestling (for the most part) is low level.

 

Having watched wrestling for a few decades now, I can honestly say that Marstellar is a once in a generation talent at the high school level.

 

And you honestly made the prediction that David Taylor would beat Kyle Dake. You also stated that you believed that Taylor had a better feel for the sport than Cael Sanderson. You also said that Marsteller was taking it to a wrestler he was losing too. You say a lot of things tightwaist. You've given me no reason to believe that I can trust your opinion when it comes evaluating wrestling talent.

 

 

I am not making predictions on how well he does in college

 

Thank you.

 

but his name needs to be included in any "best ever" HS conversation, based on his sheer dominance at an upper weight for 4 years in the toughest state in the country.

 

I strongly disagree. I'm still waiting to hear a compelling argument for Marsteller being the best ever in HS. From all the evidence I've seen, that's a very ridiculous statement that you made.

 

Take care!

 

I will.

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The kid that beat Weircioch at Dapper Dan got destroyed by Chance.

 

I'm a Penn State fan, so one might think I wouldn't sing Chance's praises given he flipped to Okie State. But the kid can flat out bring it. Penn State has a tremendous talent coming to PSU in Bo Nickal, a kid who himself hasn't lost in a long time, and I don't give him a lot of "chance" to beat Chance at Dapper Dan.

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It's great thAt guys like pico and chance have never lost to a HS wrestler, but guys like Schultz, and Carr were beating grown men. Winning jr worlds is nice , bubba Jenkins won jr worlds, but the guys we talk about as the best HS were winning on the sr level in HS, and already beating c

The best of the college ranks.

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How did Carr fare in HS? Was he a 3 time undefeated state champ? Do any of you guys know what happened with Carr and why he didn't have more success in college?

 

Carr was 53-2 in HS. His freshman and sophomore seasons he lost in the regional tournament. I believe, as a result, he did not qualify for the state tournament. He was an undefeated PA state champ as a junior. He moved to Kentucky his senior year and did not wrestle HS (followed his brother Fletcher who just started the Univ of Kentucky wrestling program and was coaching it). He did, however, win Midlands (OW award) as a senior. He was already married with two infant daughters by the time he moved to Kentucky and would add a son during his sophomore year. As a true freshman at Univ of Kentucky, he was the #2 seed at the 1975 NCAA tournment but DNP. Not sure what happened in 1976, but he did not wrestle in the NCAA tournament. He placed 5th at the 1977 NCAA tournament. I believe he dropped out of school after that and did not wrestle collegiately again. There was mention of him joining the Univ. of Alabama wrestling team for the 1979 season, but I am not sure that ever happened.

 

Here is a link to the SI article on Carr from 1975

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

 

 

I first saw Carr in a beach tournament when he was going into 8th grade back in like 1970...Ironically, he beat a graduated senior thst summer w a full scholarship to Alabama, 12-0...I couldn't believe what I was seeing...Speed ahead to that 78-79 season...Yes, he did wrestle @ Alabama...Won the SEC and went to nationals (DNP)...He had about 21 kids by then so he was wrestling more as a hobby...Even so, he could still takedown anyone in the room right up to and including the heavyweight...Not to mention, constantly had his way w/ Pat Milkovich who was asst coach @ the time...I think he definitely was suited more to freestyle where he could use an arsenal of dangerous throws and suplays...

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D-1,

 

Excuse me, with absolutely no disrespect and total admiration for Jimmy Carr, but I feel compelled to respond to your statement that Jimmy "constantly had his way" with me. Your claim is based on what facts? Obviously, I do not use a pseudonym, so I am curious to know who you are and where you get your information.

 

The following is a response to a question for me on a wrestling forum several years ago.

 

I just saw Jimmy Carr at the NCAA's this past year for the first time since 1978. He is truly a great guy. He transferred to the University of Alabama, where I was assistant coach, after his junior year at Kentucky. He wrestled for his brother Fletcher at UK. He was married and had two children at the time (maybe three kids). People have questioned why he didn't do better in the NCAA's. I spent a fair amount of time with him during my stay at Alabama and I think I can answer that question.

 

The simple answer is that he was just worn out from all the year-round wrestling that was expected of him. It used to be fun for him, but gradually, it became more of a job. A job he really didn't care to go to anymore, but he did it, reluctantly. He rarely got a break from the training. The way he explained it to me was, wrestling opened a lot of doors for him, financially. The doors were open to him as long as he was competing and winning. Fletcher would help with his "notes" (housing, food, car, travel, etc.) on the condition that he keep making teams, doing clinics, and competing. Fletch was kind of like a manager/agent.

 

He said the reason he transferred to Ala was that he needed a break from the pressure to compete for his brother, and he wanted to learn from me. Unfortunately for both of us, a few months after he transferred, Grady Peninger asked me to be his assistant at Michigan State.

 

I was always reluctant to bring up our match in 1975 but he brought it up first. He said no one had ever done to him what I did and it took him right out of his game. As a junior that year, I cut to 126 from 152. I was planning on wrestling 134 or even 142. There were three guys bunched up at those weights and only two were going to wrestle. The other two guys were my roommates, Conrad Calendar and Don Rodgers. Our team was going to be stronger if all of us could fit into the lineup. I decided that I could handle the weight cutting better than the other two and that's how I ended up at 126 that year.

 

The week we wrestled, Sports Illustrated had a 4 -5 page spread on Jimmy. This was his feshman year. There were pics of him tossing people all over the place. Besides being the youngest ever wrestling Olympian, he was sensational coming from high school and beating NCAA champions and AA's to win the Midlands Championships. As the 2x defending NCAA champion the only reference they made to me was that of an "obstacle" for him to win the NCAA.

 

He was very fast and if he got under you, just a little, there was a very good chance you will be flying IFR (Instrument Flight Reference). My brothers and my dad came up for the match and we talked about a strategy. The first objective was to catch him off guard on the whistle. The second was to not let him get anywhere below my chin. The third was I had to escape and ride him hard. We figured because of his freestyle orientation, I would be able to get away easily and use the riding to "take the starch out of him."

 

He liked to lead a left leg, and he would kind of bob, with one hand high and one low (like a vertical "C"). The rules called for the old neutral start when your back foot had to be on the circle(10ft?) and you had to step forward on the whistle. We decided that on the whistle when he's in mid-step, I would hit a low single and pick his foot up immediately. That's exactly what happened. The whistle blew, I shot and picked up his foot. He hopped once on his back foot and I kicked it out so hard, he almost landed on his back. That's the part that Jimmy said no one had ever done that to him, ....ever! He later told me he had every intention of "taking me sight seeing." Apparently he meant thowing me. God, he laughed about that.

 

I'm not exactly sure how the rest of the scoring went but I do remember I turned him and could feel him getting tired and frustrated for the time I rode him. The match ended up 9-2 in my favor.

 

If Jimmy could have kept his enthusiasm for the sport he would have won several NCAA titles, in my opinion. Extremely talented, incredible balance, and fast as lightning. All that wear and tear just got the better of him.

 

Jimmy also has a debilitating genetic kidney disease that he is battling. I certainly wish him well and I thank him for the opportunity to wrestle one of the all-time greats in our sport.

 

 

With regard to HS All-time greats, I would submit that my brother, Tom, would be a pretty good candidate for that list. 90-0, 3x Ohio State Champ (we didn't have 9th grade in HS), Ohio was one division back then, #1 recruit in the nation, #1 Seed 1970 NCAA @134, placing 4th as a true freshman.

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D-1,

 

Excuse me, with absolutely no disrespect and total admiration for Jimmy Carr, I will take issue with your statement that Jimmy "had his way" with me. Your claim is based on what facts?

 

The following is a response to a question for me on a wrestling forum several years ago.

 

I just saw Jimmy Carr at the NCAA's this past year for the first time since 1978. He is truly a great guy. He transferred to the University of Alabama, where I was assistant coach, after his junior year at Kentucky. He wrestled for his brother Fletcher at UK. He was married and had two children at the time (maybe three kids). People have questioned why he didn't do better in the NCAA's. I spent a fair amount of time with him during my stay at Alabama and I think I can answer that question.

 

The simple answer is that he was just worn out from all the year-round wrestling that was expected of him. It used to be fun for him, but gradually, it became more of a job. A job he really didn't care to go to anymore, but he did it, reluctantly. He rarely got a break from the training. The way he explained it to me was, wrestling opened a lot of doors for him, financially. The doors were open to him as long as he was competing and winning. Fletcher (his older brother) would help with his "notes" (housing, food, car, travel, etc.) on the condition that he keep making teams, doing clinics, and competing. Fletch was kind of like a manager/agent.

 

He said the reason he transferred to Ala was that he needed a break from the pressure to compete for his brother, and he wanted to learn from me. Unfortunately for both of us, a few months after he transferred, Grady Peninger asked me to be his assistant at Michigan State.

 

I was always reluctant to bring up our match in 1975 but he brought it up first. He said no one had ever done to him what I did and it took him right out of his game. As a junior that year, I cut to 126 from 152. I was planning on wrestling 134 or even 142. There were three guys bunched up at those weights and only two were going to wrestle. The other two guys were my roommates, Conrad Calendar and Don Rodgers. Our team was going to be stronger if all of us could fit into the lineup. I decided that I could handle the weight cutting better than the other two and that's how I ended up at 126 that year.

 

The week we wrestled, Sports Illustrated had a 4 -5 page spread on Jimmy. This was his feshman year. There were pics of him tossing people all over the place. Besides being the youngest ever wrestling Olympian, he was sensational coming from high school and beating NCAA champions and AA's to win the Midlands Championships. As the 2x defending NCAA champion the only reference they made to me was that of an "obstacle" for him to win the NCAA.

 

He was very fast and if he got under you, just a little, there was a very good chance you will be flying IFR (Instrument Flight Reference). My brothers and my dad came up for the match and we talked about a strategy. The first objective was to catch him off guard on the whistle. The second was to not let him get anywhere below my chin. The third was I had to escape and ride him hard. We figured because of his freestyle orientation, I would be able to get away easily and use the riding to "take the starch out of him."

 

He liked to lead a left leg, and he would kind of bob, with one hand high and one low (like a vertical "C"). The rules called for the old neutral start when your back foot had to be on the circle(10ft?) and you had to step forward on the whistle. We decided that on the whistle when he's in mid-step, I would hit a low single and pick his foot up immediately. That's exactly what happened. The whistle blew, I shot and picked up his foot. He hopped once on his back foot and I kicked it out so hard, he almost landed on his back. That's the part that Jimmy said no one had ever done that to him, ....ever! He later told me he had every intention of "taking me sight seeing." Apparently he meant thowing me. God, he laughed about that.

 

I'm not exactly sure how the rest of the scoring went but I do remember I turned him and could feel him getting tired and frustrated for the time I rode him. The match ended up 9-2 in my favor.

 

If Jimmy could have kept his enthusiasm for the sport he would have won several NCAA titles, in my opinion. Extremely talented, incredible balance, and fast as lightning. All that wear and tear just got the better of him.

 

Jimmy also has a debilitating genetic kidney disease that he is battling. I certainly wish him well and I thank him for the opportunity to wrestle one of the all-time greats in our sport.

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It's great thAt guys like pico and chance have never lost to a HS wrestler, but guys like Schultz, and Carr were beating grown men. Winning jr worlds is nice , bubba Jenkins won jr worlds, but the guys we talk about as the best HS were winning on the sr level in HS, and already beating c

The best of the college ranks.

 

Pico and Chance have both beaten grown men.

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It's great thAt guys like pico and chance have never lost to a HS wrestler, but guys like Schultz, and Carr were beating grown men. Winning jr worlds is nice , bubba Jenkins won jr worlds, but the guys we talk about as the best HS were winning on the sr level in HS, and already beating c

The best of the college ranks.

 

Pico and Chance have both beaten grown men.

 

Additionally, Schultz and Carr wrestled in a very different era. The early 70's had some great wrestlers, but it does not compare to the year round focus of today's wrestling. These "best evers" almost have to be split up by generations.

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Schultz was late 70s. And Schultz wasn't simply beating grown men, he was beating ncaa champions (including the NCAA OW) and all americans. Schultz placed 2nd at one of the very top tournaments in the entire World as a HS senior (Tblisi). Schultz also won the U.S. nationals and won the award for most falls in the least amount of time. I'm not sure how that doesn't compare to today. The guys Schultz beat had far more experience than he did. They were guys who were literally wrestling for a living. No current HS wrestler compares to Schultz. And of course, Carr has accomplishments on par with Schultz.

 

I would like to hear how the year round focus of today's wrestling somehow makes these accomplishments not comparable to what today's HS stars are doing. IF that is what is being said.

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No mention of Mike Farina from Elmhurst, Illinois? He was pretty darn good. Not only was he the Freestyle alternate at 105.5 that year, but he placed top eight in Greco at the '76 Olympics before his freshman year of college began. Not bad for a kid whose high school gave him the last month off so he could go train for an Olympic medal.

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Kirk Wallman!! 201-0-0, with 141 pins- who knows how many tech falls?

 

just a little background:

 

Kirk Wallman started wrestling at age 4, and since the age of 5 he would never lose to another South Dakotan. That's one intense little dude!!! These stories are fun...and Kirk is a treat of a guy ( as are his brothers Troy and Cory and folks).

 

 

http://www.freemansd.com/cover_story/ar ... a7208.html

 

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

 

Of course, the Simmons boys from Michigan had great runs too...but I have a hard time with putting them way up there because of the "knife" they were allowed to use to put their opponents to sleep.

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In my era, or kinda slightly ahead of my era, the best is a toss-up between Cary Kolat or Alan Fried. I remember the USA vs USSR match at ST. John, where Fried took down a much larger and older Soviet. The soviet was exceptional, and prevailed, but even he was mightily impressed. Alan's senior year he tech'd Tom Brands at Junior Nationals, I believe his 4th in a row. He red-shirted hie freshman year and beat Brands again. Brands won the NCAA that year. Brands would beat Fried 5 or 6 times; Alan did pin Tom in like 30 seconds in a match, surely a record for a pin against a defending NCAA champ and future Gold medalist. Looking at Tom and Alan's careers, the major difference appears to be that Gable was it. He just bonded more with Tom and really got the maximum out of him. He may have done the same for Fried, but it was not to be. OK St had to go a year with no NCAA, a year where Fried almost certainly would have won. Fried dominated Abas and everyone else the following year. Fried's career in college was 129-6. 5 losses were to Brands! Cary Kolat doesn't need his accolades mentioned, but his college record was 111-7, with a few losses to TJ Jaworsky, someone I can't see Fried losing to. I can surely see Brands beating up Kolat, as he did Fried, though those were usually barn-burners. Would have been sick to see those two go at it in their primes. They were very close in ages and weights, just never at the same time.

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LOL...Mr. Milkovich...J figured if I threw down my "constantly" handled by Jimmy Carr statement, I thought we might hear from you!! I know you had a great admiration for him...I also know you whipped his ass in college...That being said, you can't disagree he was a bad man for his size and never, never made it look anything but easy...Still my fav (High School) You have to admit though that he could have tossed Leif Erickson if he wanted to (or maybe he did) ...I will keep my pseudonym for obvious reasons but I do have some old ties to the Crimson Tide...Best to you!

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