Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
BigApple

Gizoni vs Crossface Cradle

Recommended Posts

I do teach wrestlers that when the bottom man comes to his knees when you have a bar am ride on to do a tilt. I usually go through the crotch to lock up the other part of the arm. That usually makes the bottom man stay down flat so they you can go to work on him with options that lead to a pin. Sergi Belaglosov used the bar arm tilt, but instead of pinning the near shoulder to the mat, he would "dive" over. I saw him take Brad Penrith for about 5 two point turns with that. Brad had been a world silver medalist. Of course Sergi won 2 Olympics and 6 world titles. I got to know him and his twin Anatoly a little thru a Russian friend who coached in the Soviet Union.

 

I have no clue what a 3/8 nelson is. 1/4, half, 3/4, and full nelson I'm very familiar with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is anymore but it's been fun to follow,...aside from the personal stuff. Apple, I think you might be mistaken on the hold Belaglosov used on Penrith if it is the match I'm thinking of. I don't think Penrith was a world silver medalist yet either. Maybe it was a different match but the tilt I remember was not what I think you are calling a bar arm tilt or what I call a bar and crotch tilt (near wrist and through the crotch with your other hand hooking near wrist). It was off a ball and chain tilt (cross wrist through the crotch and elbow in back), but Belaglosov slipped the elbow on the back deeper and grabbed his own wrist that was through the crotch and rolled through... It was impressive none the less. As for the original post, all holds can work at the right time. Wrestlers have to decide if the effort or risk of creating or acting upon the opportunity with a particular hold is beneficial enough for them to attempt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Watch the Gable-Owings match. The technique looks like 21st century middle schoolers.

 

Compare David Taylor 8th grade to Dan Gable 2x NCAA Champ.

 

Taylor

 

Gable

 

 

I wonder if anyone even cared to watch this and make a comment. Kind of gives a stark comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Say what you will about toughness, willpower, or whatever "it" makes a good wrestler, but you cannot deny that 8th grade Taylor has vastly superior skills when compared to 2x Champ Gable.

 

Very bad comparison. Why would you compare David Taylor wrestling an overmatched opponent in middle school, vs an ncaa finals match? Two completely different levels of competition. It's easier to look good against weaker competition.

 

Why don't we try comparing Taylor's 8th grade video to his matches against Kyle Dake or Bubba Jenkins. What conclusion would you come to by comparing those videos? Has David Taylor gotten worse over the years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Compare any Dake/Taylor match to gable then. They still look technically more sound.

 

Even with looking only at 14 year old Taylor, he still had way more weapons in his arsenal than 21 year old Gable.

 

Compare 8th grade Taylor to RS freshman and junior Taylor and what conclusion would you come to? It's easy to look great against overmatched competition. Take any modern day, elite college wrester who's considered to have a limited offensive arsenal, and compare those videos to their senior year state tournament videos. What will you get then? More times than not, they will look like an offensive juggernaut. That's largely due to the difference in competition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For argument's sake, let's say that you cannot use the two matches I linked above to compare skill sets. Compare either Dake or Taylor in their NCAA finals bout. They both display a wider array of techniques and stay in better position that Gable ever did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i think whats important to realize is that dan gable wrestled in an era that didnt have training advantages that current wrestlers do, like an internet message board that kindly points out which moves athletes should start learning.

 

maybe if gable has a themat.com back in his day he would have kept that perfect record intact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, the heroes of yesterday and the heroes of today have much more in common than the obvious technique and rules and match length differences which everyone seems to want to focus on. The will to win, and even more relevant, the will to do what it takes to win, is why David Taylor would be using the same techniques as Gable in 1969, and why John Smith would be using the same techniques as David Taylor today. It's really not complicated, the great ones would have been the same people that overcame all of the physical, mental, and technical limitations in any era, and they would have also been the same ones to excel at all of the above in relation to the guys they compete against.

 

The great Lombardi football teams wouldn't make a first down without losing the ball to the advanced ball stripping skills of today, but you might be surprised to find that the best of each generation are the toughest mentally, and all of that other stuff would be interchangeable if they traded eras, and knowledge of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In my opinion, the heroes of yesterday and the heroes of today have much more in common than the obvious technique and rules and match length differences which everyone seems to want to focus on. The will to win, and even more relevant, the will to do what it takes to win, is why David Taylor would be using the same techniques as Gable in 1969, and why John Smith would be using the same techniques as David Taylor today. It's really not complicated, the great ones would have been the same people that overcame all of the physical, mental, and technical limitations in any era, and they would have also been the same ones to excel at all of the above in relation to the guys they compete against.

 

The great Lombardi football teams wouldn't make a first down without losing the ball to the advanced ball stripping skills of today, but you might be surprised to find that the best of each generation are the toughest mentally, and all of that other stuff would be interchangeable if they traded eras, and knowledge of the time.

 

+1

 

There is no need to denigrate the past heroes of the sport or deny evolution in our training systems. Wrestling is human confrontation. Watch for it in every match and your experience as a fan will grow tremendously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...